Friday the 13th 

I agree completely with Steve's assessment - a superb climb even for gumbies such as myself who can only scratch their way up P1. It's a little more awkward than it appears from the ground, but the jams and the protection are excellent. Take a few #3 and #4 Friends, along with an orange TCU, stand in the queue, and then give it a go.

A sweeet climb here. Great beta from Steve....thanks. You can read all about it, but nothing compares to just climbing it. Pumpy climb that when finished, will keep you smiling for some time after.

The second pitch of this climb is also very good. I believe there was a chockstone anchor right after the crux. This pitch is only concidered about 25feet. 11a.

Excellent!!! Rack TCUs (yellow Metolius or equivalent) to #3 Camalot. The crack generally widens as one ascends, so placing gear is pretty straightforward. I would suggest racking on your left side and save a 0.75 Camalot for the top!

One of the best handcracks Vedauwoo has to offer.

A yellow Alien at the start WILL NOT HOLD. I've seen one blow out numerous times when an associate chickened out (not difficult if you're not proficient at the grade). Medium-sized nuts will hold instead. Farther up, this thing eats #2 Camalots like popcorn.

Also (nurrrr....) the second pitch goes at 10+ and eats gold Camalots like popcorn but needs a #3.5 Camalot to protect a brief (but easy) wide spot above the roof. Look for little feet and trust your smears and deep hand jams going out the roof on this thing. The third pitch goes at 11-ish. Wild exposure, no feet, campusing between jams for the crux of that. Apparently there is an edge to grab, but Bob says if you have any skill as a crack climber, don't use it.

I agree with one of the previous comments-- if you are a small person, the bottom 20 feet aren't as challenging. I can place a bomber purple cam and go... But the top part where it opens into #3 cams and a bit wider- that section is tough for me.

I think a yellow Alien is totally bomber gear at the initial moves, all about the competence of the climber placing it. The first pitch doesn't have a move harder than 5.9, but it is sustained. Harder for people with small hands up high. The last pitch does not involve campusing as said earlier. Really bomber hands out overhang lead to a good shelf hold above the lip- I bet if Bob was up there he'd use it.

No, Scarpelli was being quick with the beta and he said "If you've got any skill as a crack climber, you won't grab that edge".

"No, Scarpelli was being quick with the beta and he said 'If you've got any skill as a crack climber, you won't grab that edge'."

Lol. Bob has a very good point, which is to learn to climb the crack, not the face around the crack. Same goes for your feet. Learn to jam them in the crack, especially on flared cracks. Rand smears = (secure + good body position most of the time). Edges on the outside of the crack can certainly be useful, but pure reliance on them is foolish. Know how to do both and when to use what.

Absolutely great route! Strenuous and continuous jamming, never too hard, but never too easy either. One of the best 5.10 cracks I've ever done.

Trust me, about everyone uses the good edge at the lip of the top roof. Man I know I did. It's quite desperate up there.

I once linked up all three pitches together as one pitch. I called it the "Ultimate Linkup". Stanton "pumphouse" Peterson belayed.

Climbing the first roof is 11a, but not harder.

Led the first pitch, classic! I ripped out my second piece, 0.3 blue Camalot, at the same spot my friend did 4 years earlier...same size cam, too! I got rope burn and a little road rash and almost touched the ground. Had to ball up for the send, and then had to run it out 'cause I only brought one #2 Camalot. Great pitch!

How about removing the 10a/b rating for this climb- IT'S WRONG! Only one pitch of this three pitch climb is even close to this (one move of 10a at most). Rating the climb for only its first pitch is ridiculous even if most people don't go on to climb the rest of it.
Anyone agree?

I'm with Mike D on this one. The route is rated 5.11+. The first pitch clears the first roof and is rated 5.11a. The second pitch is the business and can be 5.11d or harder depending on your campusing ability between flared hands. There is no third pitch.

Whoever put the chains in below the first roof ought to be castrated: they have completely changed the nature of the route and should be removed. It used to be one of the great Veedauwoo test-pieces. Now it's just another overcrowded tick for people who people who climb on other people's top ropes.

I am so glad that the FHRC in Eldorado has taken a stance against these convenience anchors. Their farsighted understanding of how profoundly these cheese-ball anchors will change the nature of a route and an area has kept Eldo as one of the premier trad areas in the country.

... or if nothing else, they should replace the chains with at least something I'd consider chaining my dog up with. Yeesh. As far as the "P2", the rope drag's gonna be a bitch no matter how you do it, since those bolts don't really provide you with anything, positionwise.

Malcolm, Those chains have been there for well over 20 years and allow a lot of people to be able to do a great 5.10a. A lot of people do not lead 5.11 trad. Why should 5.10 climbers be deprived of a one of the best 5.10 pitches in the area, especially since it has been there so long. I don't view it as a convenience anchor. Leading pitch one and two together would be interesting. With the weight of the rope there would be significant rope drag. I lead the second pitch in 1986 with a belay at the chains and I don't recall there being much drag. Did you lead P1 and P2 as a single pitch? Do you remember much rope drag?

As far as replacing the chains I can't remember or comment on the quality of the belay since I have not been there in a few years, but if it is inadequate, I would support replacement (preferably by the locals if they deem necessary since the last thing I want to do is tell the locals up there what to do.)

P1 and P2 can be combined without rope drag being a concern.

I agree with the rating change for this route and I'm with Malcom. Just because the anchors have been there for a long time doesn't mean they should have been placed there to begin with. This climb was originally put up as a 2 pitch climb and the first anchor is not even at a stance so to use it your are not really freeing this route but adding A0 to this first pitch.

There are plenty of other good 10s in the area for folks to do. Adding an anchor in the middle of a pitch so folks can do it without doing the crux is free climbing blasphemy. I guess there are a lot of folks that don't understand that "old school" perspective. Having climbed in Veedawoo for over 20 yrs & knowing the mentality from the past, I believe the previous generations of locals would be in favor of removal of this DAWG on anchor!

I watched the great Scarpelli and his lady friend use the anchors below the roof, which may add to their legitimacy. The way that it is broken up now seems to be the best way, and its rating is arrived at because that is the way most people climb it. Please, dismount from your white horse of righteousness.

Amen, Malcolm and Bob. Adding anchors in the middle of a classic long standing pitch does not fit in Vedauwoo. Doing the first "two" pitches as one with properly placed gear is not a problem as far as rope drag goes.

The first pitch was one of my hardest leads to date, and I am stoked that it's set up the way it is. I understand the purists wanting it to stay clean, but there are a ton of routes with walkoffs and probably first ascents if you don't like the crowds or it being broken up the way it is.

I certainly benefited from the convenience anchor; it was great to be able to play on this line. But I have to agree with the purists - if this route was FA'd as an .11 climbing through the roof, that's how it should be, IMO. There are plenty of nice .10s to be had without splitting up this pitch. I can think of several classics I've been on, all over CO and CA, that have high cruxes. I would hate to see them split by a lower anchor so that those that don't climb at the grade can do the lower portion. If this sort of thing is okay, then it naturally applies to all grades. Do we want 5.12s with intermediate anchors for climbing at 5.11? Do we want 5.7s with intermediate anchors for climbing at 5.6? And I have to think that were it not for the intermediate anchors on Friday the 13th, the rock on this line would be nowhere near as polished....

Just to voice a local opinion, I actually think the anchor is fine. I also think it is fine to add anchors in situations like this where the circumstances fit. I could well imagine a large part of the draw on this particular route is the fact that that pitch is nice and sheltered even in a heavy downpour, and due to its orientation and protected location, it is a great cold weather climb. Does anyone know how the FAist feels about this anchor?

+1 for leaving the anchor alone.

"Chopping" would be destructive and silly, the vast majority of climbers that get on this route only do the 10a pitch to the existing anchors.

I agree that chopping the bolts would be needlessly destructive, especially since they've been in place for decades (they were certainly there when I first visited the climb in 2002).

Dusty, rattly memories: maybe they've been there since the mid-1990s. I too agree with leaving the anchors as is. When we first did the first pitch (through the 11- section), we used that intermediate anchor.

Great route, extremely hard to lead if you're not comfortable with 5.10 Vedauwoo ratings. P.S.: Keep the bolts. Please.

It is kind of funny to look at the "com census" rating and so many folk saying it is 10a...well 99% of all only do the first pitch and yes it is 10a. But really... it is a three-pitch climb rated at 11+.

So, if you are not going to do all three pitches then you probably should not give the climb a grade.

Just saying....

I'm generally against chopping anchors. In this case, it seems that primarily Colorado climbers want to have the anchor removed. This is a Vedauwoo route, not Eldo. I'm certain if it were chopped (defacing the rock!) that it would be replaced by the Laramie/Fort Collins locals almost immediately. Don't like it? Climb somewhere/something else that doesn't offend your sensibilities.
P.S. I've been climbing in Vedauwoo a LONG time (since 1968).