Type: Trad, Sport, 3 pitches Fixed Hardware (6)
FA: FFA: Pat Adams, 1981
Page Views: 4,074 total · 20/month
Shared By: Alex Shainman on Oct 27, 2001
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

You & This Route

25 Opinions

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Access Issue: Subject to Seasonal Raptor Closures Details
Access Issue: Seasonal Closures Details


Originally, a scary aid line in the '60s, Fire and Ice became an awesome technical face climbing test-piece for the '80s and still today. Three modern bolts protect three uniquely different "crux" sections. As with other "Roof Routes", F+I is rather height-dependent, and it's interesting to see how different people decipher the moves. I will tell you that you better fine tune your high stepping, mantling and crimping skills....

The route does continue through the roof (slightly down and right) and past the right facing corner at (11+R) by Alec Sharp, using a wild press/stand-up/undercling and jump move to the lip! Stuff a couple cams (#1.5-2 Friend) and layback past a bolt. Head up to the Guenese traverse and an anchor. Rap or continue.

Also, the first bolt was not originally there; for the aid ascent nor for early free attempts (and ground falls).

If you do P1 of Psycho and want an interesting TR: Climb F+I to the second bolt and traverse left diagonally upward to Psycho's anchors (led by Alec Sharp, Slow Dancing).

A good sized flake-hold just before the anchor on P1 broke off, but in my opinion, the climbing has not become more difficult.... That section is still just as tenuous as it always has been, from the right-foot rock over and up!


3 bolts, 2-bolt anchor.


This route just got a whole heck of a lot harder this weekend. I ripped off the only good hold between the last bolt and the anchor. The move now is going to be a desperate high step mantle with jack for hand holds. And not to mention that you will be standing a nice little bit above the last bolt. While this was already a technical and excellent slab route, it is now way harder (the crux will be getting to the anchors) and with a little more sketch to it.

If it used to be 11d (definite sandbag), it is now probably around mid 12.

Before and after the broken hold, this route is an amazing piece of slab climbing. Dec 5, 2004
Kenneth Noisewater
San Diego
Kenneth Noisewater   San Diego
Three stars...but
My 2 cents is: despite a high quality sport route, the grade is 100% wrong. A 5.11 Eldo or sport climber should not get on this thinking it will be a good time.
I climb mid-12 sport, mid-11 Eldo gear, V6 bouldering; there were moves I just couldn't pull.
Normally I would pass this off as stylistic and personal differences, however my friend Tony (who climbs 13c Rifle, and on-sights mid to upper 12) took two days of projecting F&I. Jeff Cloud thought it was 12c, before the flake pulled, and Pat Adams himself thought it was pretty ridiculous in hindsight when I asked him about it.
Just a thought, but when the first acentionist thinks it's probably wrong, it might be time to modernize the rating. Traditionalism or not. Sep 26, 2006
Ken Cangi
Eldorado Springs, CO
Ken Cangi   Eldorado Springs, CO
I agree that a 5.11 climber would have his or her hands full on this route, although 12c is way off. I onsighted this route pretty easily, in 1995, It took me three tries to stick the crux of Downpressor Man. There was no stopper move on the route - just sustained and relatively thin climbing most of the way.

Ken, did Jeff say that to you? Just curious because he was my regular partner back then, and I was with him when he did it. We both onsighted it and, as I recall, agreed that was pretty solid and thought-provoking 12a. Aug 3, 2007
Alex Shainman
Rifle, CO
Alex Shainman   Rifle, CO
In my opinion, the last section above the 3rd bolt (high-step w/ funny pinch hold) and where the flake got ripped off is not any harder than before.... For me being 6', 12a has always seemed a reasonable grade for this route, but it is height-dependent, so.... The route is relatively easy to read and no moves are as hard as the crux of Downpressor Man (12a). Oh yeah, it is tenuous and hairy getting to the anchor, for sure (always has been)! Jan 24, 2010
Alex Shainman
Rifle, CO
Alex Shainman   Rifle, CO
In response to a comment above...What does it mean to "modernize the rating" anyways??? Ratings are ratings...This route, like many hard routes all over the world, was first freed in EB's (or worse!). No sticky rubber or sensitivity and a blunt toe and using inferior bolts as protection!!!! Modernize? If anything, many ratings should be lowered due to technology!!!

Anyways...Ratings don't mean shit! Feb 12, 2010
Hank Caylor
Glenwood Springs, CO
Hank Caylor   Glenwood Springs, CO  
Now Alex, ratings do mean shit. That's why your profile is full of them. And I also think that Fire and Ice is weirdly stiff since the hold broke. Hope all is well, crazyman! Feb 12, 2010
Alex Shainman
Rifle, CO
Alex Shainman   Rifle, CO
You are absolutely correct Hank, ratings do mean shit. Thanks for calling me out! When am I going to see you out in the canyon? Let's do something crazy, soon! Feb 12, 2010
Master Beta
Reno, NV
Master Beta   Reno, NV
Found a video of this route:

vimeo.com/9483523 Oct 27, 2010
Scott Bennett
Scott Bennett  
Fun little route, the epitome of an Eldo climb that either feels easy or impossible. If you enjoy this style of climbing, definitely check out "Book of Numbers", P1 of BoN is about the same grade as F&I. Apr 15, 2011
Denver Colorad
  5.12a PG13
ANGUS WIESSNER   Denver Colorad
  5.12a PG13
Great route with sick runout up high!!! What a GEM. Dec 2, 2014