Type: Sport, TR, 55 ft
FA: Tom MacFarlane, Brian Riepe, 8/89
Page Views: 3,128 total · 22/month
Shared By: Jason Halladay on Apr 3, 2007
Admins: Jason Halladay, Anthony Stout, LeeAB Brinckerhoff, Marta Reece, Drew Chojnowski

You & This Route

28 Opinions

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Step up to the small roof and clip the first bolt. Pull the roof with a tenuous mantle-type move to really get going. Climb the thin, slabby face past a couple more bolts to a nice no-hands rest ledge. Then gun it through the steep, technical face climbing, using a nice mono pocket along the way through the short, pronounced crux past three more bolts to the anchors. Definitely a sequence to it.


This is the right-most route on the main wall. Shown as route number 29 on the Overlook route topo photo.


Used to be just two bolts then a small gear placement in a horizontal crack before the steep, bolted face with three more bolts to a bolted anchor. However, sometime in the past few years (early 2000s?) a third bolt near the horizontal crack was placed by an unknown driller.
Oakland CA
caughtinside   Oakland CA
rad sequential movement that involves a killer mono! Apr 4, 2007
Shirtless Mike
Denver, CO
Shirtless Mike   Denver, CO  
Don't really need any trad gear for this one, the moves between the first and second bolt are pretty easy. Apr 4, 2007
Just curious if whoever retrobolted this climb bothered to ask the first ascentionist for permission? Funny, it was a safe lead before retrobolting since the horizontal seam took gear just fine! Next time I see Brian I'll inquiry as to any solicitation for permission. If not, that bolt ought to come out! Feb 1, 2008
Jason Halladay
Los Alamos, NM
Jason Halladay   Los Alamos, NM  
Thanks to a hardware donation by the ARI, the anchor on this route has been replaced with some quality Fixe hardware, January 2009. Jan 31, 2009
J. Albers
J. Albers   Colorado
The bolt above the crack has been there for a long time (8 years at a minimum). Roger, this is a sport climb and I really don't see any good reason why that bolt should come out. Can you put a yellow TCU in the horizontal slot? Sure, but the quality of Thorazine as a route comes from the beautiful line and the face that it goes up and having to bring along a cam to plug a runout between bolts seems pointless and in my opinion would detract from the route. I would vote for the bolt to stay. Aug 7, 2009
Daniel Trugman
Los Alamos, NM
Daniel Trugman   Los Alamos, NM
While I agree with you J. Albers that Thorazine is a better route with the bolt in place, I think Roger brings up a valid point about contacting the FAs before the modifying their routes. I think it is disrespectful to retrobolt a route that has a recorded FA party (Tom and Brian) without first soliciting their permission. Please respect the vision of the FAs by not tampering with their hard work behind their backs.

To be clear - this is not a personally directed toward J. Albers. I'm sure you had nothing to do with it. I think this should be obvious but so much of what is said on the internet can be easily misconstrued, so I feel compelled to include this disclaimer. Oct 21, 2009
Daniel Trugman
Los Alamos, NM
Daniel Trugman   Los Alamos, NM
Awesome. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear. To clarify my previous post, I do not condone chopping bolts. I think it is equally destructive (as far as the rock is concerned) to remove a bolt as it is to place one. I was merely pointing out that Roger had a valid point in saying that the FA should have been contacted prior to the retrobolt. Oct 23, 2009
George Perkins
The Dungeon, NM
George Perkins   The Dungeon, NM
At risk of opining on bolt ethics, here are the rumors I've heard regarding the 3rd bolt on Thorazine Dream:
-Prior to the 3rd bolt being put in, the climb was often led without bringing any trad gear (perhaps by mistake, out of laziness, lack of gear, or ego), instead running out that section of the climb. That section is easy up to the no-hands rest at the horizontal crack, but there are a couple of thin 5.10/10+ moves just before clipping the next bolt where falling would have been really bad. So, although it was adequately protectable with the finger-size cam, it was often climbed in an "unsafe" style.
-To resolve this and bring the climb to modern sport climbing standards, the 3rd bolt was understandably placed by one of the strongest and more active rock climbers in LA/White Rock in the mid-late 90s, prior to his accident. (He also bolted many of the sport climbs at White Rock.) At the time, at least some other locals were aware of it, and were generally supportive or at least tolerant of it; though the FAists were not included in the discussion (not sure why, perhaps for totally valid reasons) and may not have been exactly jazzed about not being asked. In addition to being a great climb, Thorazine Dream was the 1st sport climb at the Overlook, so putting it up was somewhat of a personal statement, especially considering the anti-bolt ethical precedent in WR at the time. They were obviously not so upset as to remove it.
-This all might not be fully true, just my impression from talking to older climbing partners in the area, including Roger (above post)
-Now, years later, I think most active local climbers appreciate both the climb and the 3rd bolt. Mar 31, 2017