Notorious 5.9+ sandbags

Every semi-experienced trad leader knows that 5.9+ is actually a code for "sandbag troubles". I'd like to know what are the most notable sandbags you lead at 5.9+.

The idea came after leading Where lizards dare, at Fortress Wall (RRG). FA in 1977, rated at 5.9+ in Ray Ellington/Dustin Stephen's guidebook. MP begs to differ at a 10b consensus, though some people got excited and rated at 10+.... even one 11a! A great climb nonetheless, and maybe the sandbag gives it a little... je ne sais quoi. It's just that it's not a good first 5.9 date.

• Where lizards dare, Fortress Wall, RGG. What looks like a yummy finger crack dihedrale from below turns out to be barely accepting of fingertips and overhang slightly.
• Kor-Ingalls, Castletown Tower, Castle Valley (Utah), how to make your gumby second swear his life in offwidths & chemineys, with impregnable seats for the show at the belay.
• North Chimney, same formation as Kor-Ingalls, and also wide. Somewhat less of a sandbag (apparently).
• Grand Giraffe, eldo. Apparently once rated at 5.8, now MP seems to center around 10-. The offwidth factor probably plays into this.
• By Gully, Boulder Canyon. Another offwidth (see a trend here?). MP is torn, about 1/2 respecting the original 5.9+ grade, while the other half going for 10a or 10b.
• Epitaph, Sedona. P1-P2 seems to be accepted as 5.9, but P3 is generally described as a solid 5.10, maybe 10+. Wide jams ("bring all your #3 for this") with friction for feet.
• Hard Times, Moss cliff, Dacks. Hard times indeed - a chimney/offwidth 5.9 section throws off 5.11 leaders. So maybe it's 5.10 after all.
• Yosemite Point Buttress, Yosemite. That's a long one - for a fun account, see here. Unfortunately, too few opinions on MP to know what we think about this historic sandbag.
  
• Regular Route, Yosemite, Higher Cathedrale Spire Pull a controversial roof on an historical, exposed Yosemite classic.
• Phobos, Yosemite again. Pulling a roof that feels more like 5.10.
• The Yawn, Yosemite again, some more OW again.
• Basically any 5.9 in Yosemite I guess
• High Test, Seneca, "a great 5.9 with a 5.11 crux", but for a change it's a thin crack.
• Hangman, Wasatch range, a 1-2 punch with a first pitch of 5.9+, and a 2nd of 5.9++. Lie back & finger/hands.
• The Great Dihedral, Poko-Moonshine (Dacks). Referred to as "... a 5.9 for the solid 5.10 leader."
• The Horn, at Pawtuckaway. Short stout finger cracks with the mid-crux described as "V3". Maybe bring crashpads & call it a highball?
• Frosted Mug, Dacks. It actually only gets 5.9 in the guidebook, but it's the Dacks, and it's not an offwidth so let's get it in.
• Bloody Mary, Dacks again. 110ft "sustained" dacks 5.9 with one rest mid-pitch. Also not an offwidth. Me thinking the Dacks win the awards for the "less offwidh-y sandbags 5.9+ destination".
• Goliath, Sedona. The crux is the mantle at the top of P4 - "it's 5.8 if you can do a muscle up, 5.11 otherwise".

5.9+ is the hardest grade in existence, therefore 5.9+ cannot be ‘sandbagged’.

Kor-Ingalls on Castleton Tower

Regular Route on Higher Cathedral Spire

The horn  at patackaway.

Mountain projects consensus on grade still hasn’t changed that one but it has changed a lot of the other 9+ in  New Hampshire  and in the Adirondacks. All of the early 5.9s that I lead are now called 5.10

Will Manesswrote:

Kor-Ingalls on Castleton Tower

Regular Route on Higher Cathedral Spire

Totally agree, but I would add “Where Lizards Dare” on the Fortress Wall at RRG

Definitely not Yo Mama, that one’s easy

Grand giraffe, eldo 

epitaph was called 9+, Sedona. 

The By Gully in Boulder Canyon is pretty hard.

To the first anchors of Friday the 13th at Vedauwoo has spit many chest puffing green platers off.

Steck-Salathe. Legit

Theres some pissant little 5.8 warm up at the Rope De Dope crag at Smith, it might be the hardest route on that little pile.

High Test at Seneca Rocks is another one to add to the list

The Great Dihedral at Poko seemed pretty damn hard to me....  Its possible I got the beta all wrong; I really should do it again to see how it feels, but I'm a little bit scared of it. 

The Yawn and Crescent Arch in Tuolumne might fit in here. 

As Frank mentioned, anyone see a trend here? Off-widths and chimneys are notoriously difficult to grade with any accuracy - it depends so much on the climber's experience in those forms of climbing. I had a friend who was solid at 11+ (I think he even did an FFA at that grade of a route that was previously something like 5.7 A2) and due to his admitted lack of experience on OW felt P1 of The Yawn was the hardest thing he'd ever done.

Hard Times 5.9+ @ Moss Cliff Adirondacks NY

Marc801 Cwrote:

As Frank mentioned, anyone see a trend here? Off-widths and chimneys are notoriously difficult to grade with any accuracy - it depends so much on the climber's experience in those forms of climbing. 

Yeah, I'm sort of thinking that's true. But then other factors probably will make this even more variable, such as height (or maybe more generally body sizes & physiology). Being able to chicken wing in and OW, or NOT being able to, likely makes a huge difference in perceived difficulty. 

And/or perhaps we, collectively, just suck at OW. The Great Pioneers of the Days of Old knew how to climb that stuff.  We have been spoiled with an abundance of clean splitters with easier access. So inevitably, a bunch of people climb it all wrong and grade it 11a.

That adds value to Where Lizards Dare as a nice sandbag then, being a fingetips crack in a dihedral.

Kor Ingalls definitely.

I'm also suspicious of anything with a FA by a person named Lowe, regardless of the difficulty rating.  

Kai Larsonwrote:

Kor Ingalls definitely.

I'm also suspicious of anything with a FA by a person named Lowe, regardless of the difficulty rating.  

Or Dunn. 

Phobos

For the Central Wasatch:

Hangman

Cost of Business

Sin Nombre

Canary at Leavenworth in WA (the pitch 1 mantle)

South Face of Prusik Peak in WA (the "flaring chimney" pitch)

Dastardly Crack at Beacon Rock in WA

Walt Bailey at Devil's Tower

bryanswrote:

Walt Bailey at Devil's Tower

It's been a few years, but I don't know if I'd say it is a sandbag. It goes through more or less all the gamut of jam sizes, but I don't recall shutdown moves, or it being sustained to the point of being and endurance thing. I think I would call it a testpiece 5.9, more than a sandbag.