Route recommendations at the New for .75-1 hands & short height/reach

Heading to the New next month and looking for fun cracks for small hands--preferably ≤10b-ish, but open to trying harder stuff under the right circumstances (especially if it climbs easier-than-grade with small hands...).

Perfect hands for me are .75-1; can get thin hands in all but really tight .5s; start stacking in wide 3s. Hardest sizes for me are probably .4 (ringlocks) and the wide 2/tight 3 range (hands-fist transition).

Currently on my to-dos: High Times, Mushrooms, Crescenta, Indian Summer. Wouldn't mind some suggestions for easier stuff since those are right at my limit, haha; but other suggestions around these grades is great too :)

We'll be road-tripping from Boston, so if there are other climbs along the way you'd recommend (we're considering a stop in Seneca), I'd love to hear about those, too!

Thanks!

Super helpful--thanks, Bailey! I could use more practice jamming fists, so sounds like Wham Bam should be good for me :)

New River Gorge
-- EDIT: Ops, didnt' see that Indian Summer is already on your to do list.
-- At Fern Buttress, I recommend Triple Threat and Springboard. Triple Threat starts with big hands, but I recall pulling through the first roof (crux) was on normal to tight hands. Springboard features more face climbing, seemed much easier, and also has some great finger and hand jams.
-- EDIT to add: New Yosemite, I hesitate to recommend it because it'll most likely have a line in front of it several parties deep, but it's perfect #2s most of the way and a good way to ease into harder crack lines at the New. If New Yosemite is too busy, check out Four Sheets to the Wind, another classic.

Seneca has some good routes with hand jams, including:
-- Climbin' Punishment: north facing and gets almost no sun the whole day, so it may be too cold when you visit
-- Marshall's Madness, or Marshall's Madness to Crack of Dawn (which isn't much harder). Both are steep, have great gear, and plenty of hand jams. If it's cold when you visit, these two are good options starting early afternoon. Watch out for loose rock near the top.
-- Madmen Only: very nice hand jams most of the way, good rest before traverse right (crux), watch out for poor quality rock and marginal gear options after the traverse to the top. Afternoon sun.
If you stop at Seneca, I also highly recommend the following two classics:
-- Triple S: great stemming, a couple fun no hands rests, sandbagged (even by Seneca standards), afternoon sun (and very close to Marshall's)
-- Gunsight to South Peak Direct: one of the most exposed 5.4's east of the Mississippi! Morning sun.

Thanks, Fan! Those look great. Perfect 2's are usually cupped-but-still-reasonable hands for me, so not the worst size but not the best either...maybe a good excuse not to wait in line for New Yosemite, haha (though it looks like a beautiful line). I'm super psyched to try Indian Summer.

We were looking for a nice easy line to climb at Seneca--Gunsight to South Peak Direct looks like a great choice for that :)

Fan Zhang wrote:Seneca has some good routes with hand jams, including:
-- Climbin' Punishment: north facing and gets almost no sun the whole day, so it may be too cold when you visit
-- Marshall's Madness, or Marshall's Madness to Crack of Dawn (which isn't much harder). Both are steep, have great gear, and plenty of hand jams. If it's cold when you visit, these two are good options starting early afternoon. Watch out for loose rock near the top.
-- Madmen Only: very nice hand jams most of the way, good rest before traverse right (crux), watch out for poor quality rock and marginal gear options after the traverse to the top. Afternoon sun.
If you stop at Seneca, I also highly recommend the following two classics:
-- Triple S: great stemming, a couple fun no hands rests, sandbagged (even by Seneca standards), afternoon sun (and very close to Marshall's)
-- Gunsight to South Peak Direct: one of the most exposed 5.4's east of the Mississippi! Morning sun.

These are all great routes but if you go to Seneca for the crack climbing you are gonna be disappointed.

Somehow Castor and Pollux didn't make it on this list but are probably the two of best "crack" climbs at the grade.

A day at Seneca after a few at NRG is always fun. 

Bumping this thread with a semi-related question: I've heard a lot of talk about routes at the New being more likely than elsewhere to have reach-dependent moves. Two questions, especially for people on the shorter side:

1. In your experience, is this reputation deserved, or exaggerated?
2. Any sport routes in the 10-easy 11 range I should especially seek out? For reference, I'm 5'1.5'' with a -4'' reach. In terms of style I especially like techy vertical, stemming, and sport routes that climb a little like trad routes; but I'm open to anything!

And, preemptively: yes, Lynn Hill; yes, some moves are easier if you're small; no, I won't worry about it too much while I'm climbing, but I'm also not opposed to seeking out rad routes that I'll have fun on and where I might have better odds of success :)

Etha Williams wrote: Bumping this thread with a semi-related question: I've heard a lot of talk about routes at the New being more likely than elsewhere to have reach-dependent moves. Two questions, especially for people on the shorter side:

1. In your experience, is this reputation deserved, or exaggerated?
2. Any routes in the 10-easy 11 range I should especially seek out? For reference, I'm 5'1.5'' with a -4'' reach. In terms of style I especially like techy vertical, stemming, and sport routes that climb a little like trad routes; but I'm open to anything!

And, preemptively: yes, Lynn Hill; yes, some moves are easier if you're small; no, I won't worry about it too much while I'm climbing, but I'm also not opposed to seeking out rad routes that I'll have fun on and where I might have better odds of success :)

The good news is that the NRG has a LOT of sport routes that climb like trad routes; Legacy is one of the most obvious and should definitely not be missed.

As for the reachy thing, yeah, I think that the NRG has more reachy routes and anti-shortie routes than a lof of other sport areas.  Many of its faces link horizontal crack systems. For every route that is reachy, however, there is one that requires an absurd high step, so it evens out.

For your original inquiry about good thin cracks, some that haven't been mentioned yet would be King of Swing at Bubba (5.11a/b, but in reality not that much harder than Indian Summer), Fairtracer, and High Times (has a wide section, but the crux is .5-.75).

Oh, and I believe the crux of New Yosemite is more tight golds and big reds.

Pnelson wrote:

The good news is that the NRG has a LOT of sport routes that climb like trad routes; Legacy is one of the most obvious and should definitely not be missed.

As for the reachy thing, yeah, I think that the NRG has more reachy routes and anti-shortie routes than a lof of other sport areas.  Many of its faces link horizontal crack systems. For every route that is reachy, however, there is one that requires an absurd high step, so it evens out.

For your original inquiry about good thin cracks, some that haven't been mentioned yet would be King of Swing at Bubba (5.11a/b, but in reality not that much harder than Indian Summer), Fairtracer, and High Times (has a wide section, but the crux is .5-.75).

Oh, and I believe the crux of New Yosemite is more tight golds and big reds.

Awesome, thanks for the recommendations! Legacy is definitely on the to-do list. Those cracks look super fun, too.

My 4’7” daughter is climbing in the 10-11 range and has recently enjoyed Green Piece, Low Voltage and Flight of the Gumby at Kaymoor. They get good morning-midday sun. Fairtracer, mentioned above, is also good for shorties and at the same crag.  (And the whole family enjoyed the wide 5.6 corner to the left of Green Piece.) At Summersville, No Way Jose is a very accessible 11b for kids, and my daughter had no problem last weekend with (sandbagged) Orange Oswald. Also Jesus Is My License Plate (10d) and most of the 10s on the Gun Wall. If doing Legacy, check out Crescent Moon nearby, if you like wide stuff. Seems to lend itself to small bodies. 

Ryan McDermott wrote: My 4’7” daughter is climbing in the 10-11 range and has recently enjoyed Green Piece, Low Voltage and Flight of the Gumby at Kaymoor. They get good morning-midday sun. Fairtracer, mentioned above, is also good for shorties and at the same crag.  (And the whole family enjoyed the wide 5.6 corner to the left of Green Piece.) At Summersville, No Way Jose is a very accessible 11b for kids, and my daughter had no problem last weekend with (sandbagged) Orange Oswald. Also Jesus Is My License Plate (10d) and most of the 10s on the Gun Wall. If doing Legacy, check out Crescent Moon nearby, if you like wide stuff. Seems to lend itself to small bodies. 

Awesome, thanks for the great recommendations! Especially stoked to check out Orange Oswald and Crescent Moon.

Etha Williams wrote: Bumping this thread with a semi-related question: I've heard a lot of talk about routes at the New being more likely than elsewhere to have reach-dependent moves. Two questions, especially for people on the shorter side:

1. In your experience, is this reputation deserved, or exaggerated?
2. Any sport routes in the 10-easy 11 range I should especially seek out? For reference, I'm 5'1.5'' with a -4'' reach. In terms of style I especially like techy vertical, stemming, and sport routes that climb a little like trad routes; but I'm open to anything!

And, preemptively: yes, Lynn Hill; yes, some moves are easier if you're small; no, I won't worry about it too much while I'm climbing, but I'm also not opposed to seeking out rad routes that I'll have fun on and where I might have better odds of success :)

The reachiness at the new is no exaggeration. I regularly onsight easy 5.12 at other crags and have been shut down on easy 5.11 at the new... like taking multiple whips and then bailing... completely shut down, not just struggling. Bolts are sometimes impossible to clip and there can be few intermediates between very long reaches. I'm 5'3" with a -1" so taller than you and there are routes that I just can't do. I have made hard 5.12 moves on 5.10 routes because everyone else can reach up to a ledge and I have to smear on non-existent feets from terrible sloper crimps and somehow Dyno to a ledge that everyone else reaches static. I would recommend the physical climbing over the technical... I've decided that at the new if the route description says technical this is basically code for reachy if you're small. 

That being said, the climbing at the new is fantastic, I just have to accept that some routes aren't for me, cruxes can be in a totally different place for me vs your average height climber, and adjust my expectations accordingly. I disagree with the comment above that the high step equalizes the reachiness because a high step at waist height for someone who is 6' will be at my chest and no amount of flexibility will make that easier for me.... It's damn near impossible to rock over on to your foot when it's at your ear! 

Etha Williams wrote: Bumping this thread with a semi-related question: I've heard a lot of talk about routes at the New being more likely than elsewhere to have reach-dependent moves. Two questions, especially for people on the shorter side:

1. In your experience, is this reputation deserved, or exaggerated?
2. Any sport routes in the 10-easy 11 range I should especially seek out? For reference, I'm 5'1.5'' with a -4'' reach. In terms of style I especially like techy vertical, stemming, and sport routes that climb a little like trad routes; but I'm open to anything!

And, preemptively: yes, Lynn Hill; yes, some moves are easier if you're small; no, I won't worry about it too much while I'm climbing, but I'm also not opposed to seeking out rad routes that I'll have fun on and where I might have better odds of success :)

1. NRG and Smith Rock have, in my experience, the highest fraction of reach-dependent routes. But there are tons of routes, so even if only a fraction of routes would feel true-to-grade, there would still be lots of routes to climb.

2. In addition to routes already mentioned:

Summersville lake:

The 10's at the Long wall are really good, especially Chewy, and Flight Path.

At the Orange Oswald wall, stay away from Moon Pie Deluxe, all the other 10s are not particularly reachy. Barfing Butterfly -- i think the guidebook description makes it sound like there are reachy moves down low, where the crux is supposedly, but I thought the reachiest part was at the roof. Even so, really fun route, if you are willing to work o it.

Satisfaction Guaranteed may initially feel reachy, but if you can figure out the beta at the slab, and aren't afraid to bring your feet up in the top section, I think it actually is easier at the crux/roof for short people (as long as someone hung the draws for you, Lol!). It's an awesome route, so don't let it intimidate you. It is easier to lead than toprope, too. If you come off in the top section of the slab on toprope, you are kinda done...

If you are going when the water is down, Whippoorwill is a great sunny spot for cold weather, and Masuko is an awesome 11a. Tall people will try to tell you that you should get on Nonameyet, also 11a, and will try to tell you that Masuko is hard, and Nonameyet is easier than Masuko. Don't believe them! That one is reachy (but not impossibly-reachy. Just try-harder-than-11a, and again, get someone else to hang the draws).
  

Pnelson wrote: For every route that is reachy, however, there is one that requires an absurd high step, so it evens out.

So, you are saying there is a 1 to 1 ratio? ;) I don't think so...

Thanks for all the beta! Had a lot of fun at the New, learned I often needlessly flag on lock-off-and-reach moves and that they sometimes go better when you actually use both feet (who’d have guessed??), and fell & hung my way up Indian Summer :)

Is that top picture the beginning of Black and Tan -- at the Fantasy area?

Russ Keane wrote: Is that top picture the beginning of Black and Tan -- at the Fantasy area?

Good eye!

Lena chitawrote:

1. NRG and Smith Rock have, in my experience, the highest fraction of reach-dependent routes. But there are tons of routes, so even if only a fraction of routes would feel true-to-grade, there would still be lots of routes to climb.

2. In addition to routes already mentioned:

Summersville lake:

The 10's at the Long wall are really good, especially Chewy, and Flight Path.

At the Orange Oswald wall, stay away from Moon Pie Deluxe, all the other 10s are not particularly reachy. Barfing Butterfly -- i think the guidebook description makes it sound like there are reachy moves down low, where the crux is supposedly, but I thought the reachiest part was at the roof. Even so, really fun route, if you are willing to work o it.

Satisfaction Guaranteed may initially feel reachy, but if you can figure out the beta at the slab, and aren't afraid to bring your feet up in the top section, I think it actually is easier at the crux/roof for short people (as long as someone hung the draws for you, Lol!). It's an awesome route, so don't let it intimidate you. It is easier to lead than toprope, too. If you come off in the top section of the slab on toprope, you are kinda done...

If you are going when the water is down, Whippoorwill is a great sunny spot for cold weather, and Masuko is an awesome 11a. Tall people will try to tell you that you should get on Nonameyet, also 11a, and will try to tell you that Masuko is hard, and Nonameyet is easier than Masuko. Don't believe them! That one is reachy (but not impossibly-reachy. Just try-harder-than-11a, and again, get someone else to hang the draws).
  

Smith is reachy???  Nah no way.  There’s feet everywhere