New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

Lori Milaswrote:

And I think that's the real question.  Based upon so many conversations on this thread over the years, I believe lots of climbers are just naturally healthy and have no need for extraordinary measures.  Guy would be one of those.  'Just toss back a couple of advil with a shot of whiskey and get back on the rock.'

I think if I were just going to the gym for an hour now and then, otherwise mostly hanging out at home, I would be FINE on the diet I lived on for decades.  Chicken and fish, lots of veggies, light diet.

Climbing is just different for some of  us.  For the first couple of years I climbed here, I would climb one day, and be in bed most of the next day.  It was BRUTAL.  Just the fatigue, fogginess, exhaustion.  It took time for me to realize I needed A LOT more food, much heavier meals, more red meat, more protein in general.  

BTW... I have heard (but have not seen proof) that the beloved Blue Zone Diet radically skewed the data in favor of the low protein Mediterranean-type meal.  And I loved the whole concept of BZD. 

Yeah, it would nice to see actual proof that Med diets have skewed data. Absent that, I’d be suspicious of mis/disinformation, as many companies and pop nutrition “experts” are pushing a very different plan. Keto and carnivores immediately come to mind.

And I disagree that people don’t care much about protein - we’re inundated with advertising and products advocating more of it, and sarcopenia has entered the vocabulary of nearly every aging, active person.

I’m pushing back on how much protein is necessary, and highlighting too much of a good thing is possible.

But you‘re right, there won’t be a study that accounts for everything. Still, I have no reason to believing aging climbers have protein requirements above those of most athletes, even sexagenarians intent on sending gnar.

Lori, Yes I have climbed all over those cliffs. Mostly winter on the right side of the lake and both winter and summer on the left side.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Lori, Yes I have climbed all over those cliffs. Mostly winter on the right side of the lake and both winter and summer on the left side.

One of the unexpected joys of this thread has been seeing beautiful pictures of beautiful places where y’all live and climb.  Obviously I love pictures. Nick, we haven’t seen one of Hugi lately.

Helen, gosh darn it. I’m guessing you grew that tomato. I don’t usually have regrets but I really regret not planting anything this year. I figured this year I’ll just buy produce from our farmers market.  I bought so many different tomatoes and not one was tasty.  The heirloom tomatoes were deceiving because they look so good but open them up and they’re tasteless just like everything else.

I just wasn’t ready to go to battle with the wind and the critters and elements but I should have tried. And the tomato worms.  I miss Russ Walling because he had a solid perspective on gardening in the desert – – he shot anything that moved and displayed the carcasses for other interlopers to see.  I think Tony would enjoy sitting out on the back patio and taking some aggression out on the squirrels and rodents, etc. I found some cheap lifelike rubber snakes that really seemed to deter the rodents.

As much as I’d like to plow under my whole backyard and do raised bed gardening I don’t think it’s feasible. But whiskey barrels worked great two years ago and also I think there are some large wooden beds on stilts I could purchase cheap.  

Brandt had a very cool setup for growing.  I think I’ll give him a call.  

Maybe???

Old lady Hwrote:

Sheesh boys, women give birth with their sexual organs. Flap yours around however stupidly you want, we got ya outgunned in this department.

Impressive powers, no doubt, but there is something to be said for simplicity and ease of use.

It’s hard to imagine a more beautiful or perfect day here in the desert. I just wanted to find a rock to sit on for a few minutes but here I am two hours later and can’t make myself come down and go home. Besides down climbing isn’t nearly as fun as scrambling up.  

This was an amazing find, the only blue flower I’ve seen this year. One brave little guy.

Stargazer. I don’t know if however, be able to climb it, but I sure love to be here on a full moon.

Oopsie… right next to me…

this looks like an early season run up 20 below.....

A So Cal sunset. 

A reflective morning walk. 

Friendship ME sunset...

Got out on Short Job with a friend today. Then set up a TR over 69, and hang-dogged the difficult face climb below the roof.
That blue sky over the Carriage Road is misleading. It was mostly cloudy and chilly enough to need a light jacket.
Whatever works. It ain't over til it's over.

Fall color is reaching the valley. 

Our favorite non snow cardio. So smooth and efficient for racking up hours of zone 2 effort. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Fall color is reaching the valley. 

Our favorite non snow cardio. So smooth and efficient for racking up hours of zone 2 effort. 

Wow, great pictures. Where were these photos taken? I need to get outside to see this in person.

Grant Jwrote:

Wow, great pictures. Where were these photos taken? I need to get outside to see this in person.

Thanks, Round Valley, just north of Bishop, California. The mountain towering above my wife is called Winuba (Mt Tom). 

On AI, the job, not the hype…

https://wlockett.medium.com/ai-pullback-has-officially-started-fb6dfa5e4128

It’s very useful for generating and analysing software codes, and to assist in art but not actually create it. A tool no more nor less.

Li Huwrote:

On AI, the job, not the hype…

https://wlockett.medium.com/ai-pullback-has-officially-started-fb6dfa5e4128

It’s very useful for generating and analysing software codes, and to assist in art but not actually create it. A tool no more nor less.

Your link is members only and…

x15x15wrote:

A So Cal sunset. 

That's a great angle:  Suicide Rock in the foreground, Diamond Valley Lake in the lowlands, and then a bit to the right, Saddleback Mountain in the far distance.  If the conditions and the angle are just right from those general positions, you can sometimes make out a somewhat thin silverish line that runs along the western horizon. That be the biggestest ocean in the world. And normally you can make out Santa Catalina Island, looking like a giant hulking whale out in the water.  ( BTW, for those of you unfamiliar with this area, Tahquitz Rock is a relatively short hike to the left.)

Permabetawrote:

Yeah, it would nice to see actual proof that Med diets have skewed data. Absent that, I’d be suspicious of mis/disinformation, as many companies and pop nutrition “experts” are pushing a very different plan. Keto and carnivores immediately come to mind.

And I disagree that people don’t care much about protein - we’re inundated with advertising and products advocating more of it, and sarcopenia has entered the vocabulary of nearly every aging, active person.

I’m pushing back on how much protein is necessary, and highlighting too much of a good thing is possible.

But you‘re right, there won’t be a study that accounts for everything. Still, I have no reason to believing aging climbers have protein requirements above those of most athletes, even sexagenarians intent on sending gnar.

I think percentage of calories from protein also needs to be considered. A teenage athlete who consumes 5000 calories a day is quite different from a 60 year old weekend warrior. But there's also this article from ArsTechnica about side effects from supplements (not just protein ones) which are unregulated in the US. TLDR is that the reason some "herbal" supplements seem to work well is because they contain corticosteroids. But these should not be taken without a doctors supervision.

C Miller wrote:

Donald, that's not Lake Perris but Diamond Valley Lake.

Yeah I was not convinced it was Perris but for whatever reason I said so anyway, Perris is further west and southwest, and is contoured differently

Thanks for the correction.

Emil Briggswrote:

I think percentage of calories from protein also needs to be considered. A teenage athlete who consumes 5000 calories a day is quite different from a 60 year old weekend warrior. But there's also this article from ArsTechnica about side effects from supplements (not just protein ones) which are unregulated in the US. TLDR is that the reason some "herbal" supplements seem to work well is because they contain corticosteroids. But these should not be taken without a doctors supervision.

Yeah, some studies use % calories rather than g/kg or pound to quantify intake. Low protein is 10%, medium 10-15%, high 15% and up. So 70 kg person who consumes 2K calories a day = 200-300+ calories from protein @ 4kcal/g, 50-75+ grams. Again, no where near the 150 grams being advocated for health in pop nutrition nowadays.

Blue Zones tend to be low-medium, with Okinawans at the extreme, around 7% IIRC. In stark contrast to contemporary fads, Okinawans eat about 10:1 carbohydrate:protein in their traditional diet. Clearly, a lot of protein isn’t critical for functional longevity.

Also of note, Blue Zones consume roughly the same macronutrient composition as the standard American diet, with just a little less protein and fat. So the types of food one eats really matters, and focusing purely on macronutrients may be a bad strategy. Interesting website looking at diet composition around the world, and changes over time

Supplements are another can of worms. The appeal to nature fallacy is very real, and lack of regulation means you have no idea what you’re getting.