New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

Colden, it appears that they don't plow the roads up there they just groom them. Is that correct?

Beautiful country.

Randy wrote:

How can I say this politely... this is very wrong.

While not determinative, and only one, but perhaps the most significant, factor in longevity, VO2 Max remains very important to overall health. Overall strength (not just upper body), is another very important factor.

In a climbing context, VO2 Max is can be essential for anything but very short efforts.

Now you’re talking.   

My interest in VO2 max is mostly because I’ve been hearing about it for so long and now WHOOP is rolling out a VO2Max estimate, I gather, because it is considered to be an essential health metric.  When I told my Kaiser doctor in Northern California that I wanted to know how fit I was the first thing he suggested was to head over to their new sports center and get my VO2 max tested.  

Randy, I gotta assume with your bike riding and climbing and whatever else you do that you are very fit.

—-

Carl, you are one of the original OG’s on this thread. I can still remember when you were contemplating buying a rack. I can still remember you reporting that you were eating cans of kidney beans and drinking withania tea.

But I don’t believe you have come clean about your kangaroos or spiders. I just saw another video of a very large kangaroo beating its breast. And a video of some kid with a spider that had to be 8 inches and JUMPED.

I did my first lift service skiing in several years today. Be interesting to see if I can walk tomorrow. There is a huge difference between skinning 2500ft in a day vs skiing 15000 vertical ft in a day when you are not used to it..  when I had a ski job and skied 125 days a year my skiing fitness was pretty gud. right now if we had not done the sauna I would be crippled... 

It was a beautiful day. 

Isa has a new knee brace and today was her first real telle turns since her knee surgery.. It was a very big deal emotionally. 

this is an actual sequence

and a different spot

we did ski tour out on to sterling pond

and found a flat dry rock to take a nap on

I chopped a hole in the ice

we got the sauna up to 182f and did 4 plunges... 

Way to go, Isa!

Randy wrote:

How can I say this politely... this is very wrong.

While not determinative, and only one, but perhaps the most significant, factor in longevity, VO2 Max remains very important to overall health. Overall strength (not just upper body), is another very important factor.

In a climbing context, VO2 Max is can be essential for anything but very short efforts.

No need for politeness.   

VO2 tests I’ve done in the past were done over very long intervals. Rock climbs shouldn’t take more than a few minutes at intense aerobic levels? That’s why I don’t see how they are related?

Of course, I’m not a trainer nor do I claim to be one.

Lori Milas wrote:

Now you’re talking.   

My interest in VO2 max is mostly because I’ve been hearing about it for so long and now WHOOP is rolling out a VO2Max estimate, I gather, because it is considered to be an essential health metric.  When I told my Kaiser doctor in Northern California that I wanted to know how fit I was the first thing he suggested was to head over to their new sports center and get my VO2 max tested.  

I've had mine tested several times in a laboratory. The protocol involves running on a treadmill while wearing a mask that measures how much oxygen your body can actually extract from the air. Based on my admittedly small sample size of one the non-laboratory estimators which work by some combination of exercise performance/heart rate can be off by quite a bit. Repeated tests over time are still useful for measuring trends though. 

For those of us who love BITD stuff--amazing filmmaking and equally amazing adventure (Yvon Chouinard, Doug Tompkins, Chris Jones, Dick Dorworth, and Lito Tejada-Flores):

Giant Rock's review of Basic and Advanced Rockcraft

Daniel Joder wrote:

For those of us who love BITD stuff--amazing filmmaking and equally amazing adventure (Yvon Chouinard, Doug Tompkins, Chris Jones, Dick Dorworth, and Lito Tejada-Flores):

Viva Los Fun Hogs.

For any of you folks that are in my area (I think a few of you are!), I'm heading over to the Gravity Vault in Poughkeepsie today and will be there from around 1 to 2:30, maybe 3?

I'll be the bald, white Dude in a black Bob Dylan T-shirt (or in my La Sportiva torn multi-coloured hoody sweatshirt)!

Say hello if you see me!

Climb On!

Buck Rogers wrote:

For any of you folks that are in my area (I think a few of you are!), I'm heading over to the Gravity Vault in Poughkeepsie today and will be there from around 1 to 2:30, maybe 3?

I'll be the bald, white Dude in a black Bob Dylan T-shirt (or in my La Sportiva torn multi-coloured hoody sweatshirt)!

Say hello if you see me!

Climb On!

You may meet a few of your Doppelgängers there!

Have fun! 

It was colder and grayer today than it was a few days ago. Even so, we got out on a pitch of Rusty Trifle. Early in the season, so it wasn't too busy.

Lori Milas wrote:

Now you’re talking.   

My interest in VO2 max is mostly because I’ve been hearing about it for so long and now WHOOP is rolling out a VO2Max estimate, I gather, because it is considered to be an essential health metric.

Oh, you youngsters. My current health metric is reading the Sunday paper obituaries. I pass the metric if I am not a subject thereon.  

The things you have to cope with when climbing (sound on).  

Lori You’ll like this…

https://youtube.com/shorts/c5LuQAtvpns?si=KKP2X1F3vJDiC4Zb

Emil Briggs wrote:

I've had mine tested several times in a laboratory. The protocol involves running on a treadmill while wearing a mask that measures how much oxygen your body can actually extract from the air.

Exactly the same for me.

Based on my admittedly small sample size of one the non-laboratory estimators which work by some combination of exercise performance/heart rate can be off by quite a bit. Repeated tests over time are still useful for measuring trends though. 

Agree, most people don’t know their aerobic “level” very well.

Some people can tell what aerobic zone they are in? So, maybe for some it’s not an issue.

This is my “feeling”, but there’s plenty of people writing about their own observations.

Zone 1: climbing easy grades

Zone 2: climbing difficult grades on lead

Zone 3: Steep approach hike at altitude, heart rate 140+ so I should slow down

Zone 4: Attempting to catch up with my 20 year old climbing partners, quickly realising it’s definitely time to slow down to Zone 2-3 and let them go on ahead.

Zone 5: No way, cause it would be the last thing I do before a massive heart attack.

There are those who know exactly which zone they are in and can regulate their activities to their VO2 Max. I’m definitely not one of those, but know of people who can. I think most marathon runners can and do. It’s impressive.

Carl Schneider wrote:

The things you have to cope with when climbing (sound on).  

Lori You’ll like this…

https://youtube.com/shorts/c5LuQAtvpns?si=KKP2X1F3vJDiC4Zb

Oh god, Carl! They GROWL?  What kind of country do you live in?  You’re manly men, that’s for sure. And this explains your wife taking you on when you’re a jerk. She’s probably more woman than any woman we have here.  

But we should talk about the cultural advantages of New Zealand. More and more of my “grass fed organic” products come from there.  And there are the Maori. I imagine you have similar tribes and rituals there? 

Li Hu wrote:

Exactly the same for me.

Agree, most people don’t know their aerobic “level” very well.

Some people can tell what aerobic zone they are in? So, maybe for some it’s not an issue.

This is my “feeling”, but there’s plenty of people writing about their own observations.

Zone 1: climbing easy grades

Zone 2: climbing difficult grades on lead

Zone 3: Steep approach hike at altitude, heart rate 140+ so I should slow down

Zone 4: Attempting to catch up with my 20 year old climbing partners, quickly realising it’s definitely time to slow down to Zone 2-3 and let them go on ahead.

Zone 5: No way, cause it would be the last thing I do before a massive heart attack.

There are those who know exactly which zone they are in and can regulate their activities to their VO2 Max. I’m definitely not one of those, but know of people who can. I think most marathon runners can and do. It’s impressive.

I was thinking about the directions for finding your own VO2 max and thinking I am probably not gonna run 5 miles. But what about a couple hours of hard vertical climbing?  

When I started reviewing my heart rates during hard physical work, I was surprised to see a heart rate of 176 and even higher. We are given maximum heart rates for old people so I thought I should run this by my doctor. He didn’t know whether a heartrate this high was ok… so he had to confer with a cardiologist. They both got back to me and said “for you. This is OK.“.

One thing I noticed is that over time those heart rate numbers have come down.  

When Tony and I met, he was in actual heart failure, and his cardiologist told us it was grim. So I figured what the hell, let’s try some stuff. In less than six months Tony’s heart failure reversed itself – – his “ejection fraction“ went from 32% to 55%. I would have pushed for more radical changes however I have learned that I have to respect his limits. Tony is going to do what brings him joy and eat what he loves.  

Tony thinks nothing has changed from when he was a kid. He thinks he eats the same. But when I hear the stories of growing up in the kitchen with his mother and grandmother who were full-time cooks, they had gardens loaded with tomatoes and vegetables. There was a local butcher shop. His mother went every morning to pick the food for the day.  This is not how it is now. I’m finding it to be a nearly impossible task to just get basic good food. Loading up the cart at Walmart, or even Whole Foods, still doesn’t cut it. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Now you’re talking.   

My interest in VO2 max is mostly because I’ve been hearing about it for so long and now WHOOP is rolling out a VO2Max estimate, I gather, because it is considered to be an essential health metric.  When I told my Kaiser doctor in Northern California that I wanted to know how fit I was the first thing he suggested was to head over to their new sports center and get my VO2 max tested.  

AFAIK VO2 Max is important only as a (imprecise) proxy for Aerobic Threshold.
Aerobic threshold is driving your sports performance and longevity.

Wristwatch estimate of your VO2 Max may be off by 8 (as for my estimates).
If you do not use a chest strap HR sensor, your wristwatch sometimes can produce complete garbage data. So your 176 bpm HR may or may not be real. 

Lori Milas wrote:

I was thinking about the directions for finding your own VO2 max and thinking I am probably not gonna run 5 miles. But what about a couple hours of hard vertical climbing?  

When I started reviewing my heart rates during hard physical work, I was surprised to see a heart rate of 176 and even higher. We are given maximum heart rates for old people so I thought I should run this by my doctor. He didn’t know whether a heartrate this high was ok… so he had to confer with a cardiologist. They both got back to me and said “for you. This is OK.“.

For most, not good. AI: “Ventricular Tachycardia:: A heart rate of 170 bpm or higher can be a sign of ventricular tachycardia, a condition where the ventricles of the heart beat too fast. If you experience such a high heart rate, it's important to seek medical attention.”

I would get another doctor if he didn’t really know? … but 176 at 70 plus years would be pretty spectacular.

Li Hu wrote:

For most, not good. AI: “Ventricular Tachycardia:: A heart rate of 170 bpm or higher can be a sign of ventricular tachycardia, a condition where the ventricles of the heart beat too fast. If you experience such a high heart rate, it's important to seek medical attention.”

I would get another doctor if he didn’t really know? … but 176 at 70 plus years would be pretty spectacular.

From a personal perspective, I suffered SV Tachycardia off and on for at least fifty years. I had several procedures that I used to stop the flair-ups, which easily went over 200 BPM, sometimes lasting for hours. Finally, about 13 years ago, it reached a point that I could not bring it down on my own, so I had an ablation, which temporarily cured me, but the following year it seemed I was going into Afib. However, that was probably the aftereffects of the ablation and slowly disappeared. I have had no heart issues since.