New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

Emil Briggswrote:

I'll respect the rules of the forum I'm engaging in. But I'm not open to all views. I mean disagreeing about the top marginal tax rate is one thing. Arguing that some people should have fewer rights because of skin color, sexual orientation or religious preferences not so much.

Where it gets more complicated is when someone says they don't support such things but then come up with tortured explanations of why they support politicians who do. I used to take that into consideration but at this point I no longer feel any need to give such people the benefit of the doubt. I mean one of the most common explanations I heard before the election from Trump supporters is that they didn't like the other stuff but he was going to be good for the economy. Well he isn't but they still support him so I don't think it was ever about that. 

Eric Hoffer, "The True Believe. Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements," 1951. Decent explanation. 

WF WF51wrote:

Eric Hoffer, "The True Believe. Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements," 1951. Decent explanation. 

'The True Believer'---FIFY

Excellent book--read it when quite young ( middle school?) and it has shaped my understanding---and fear--of such movements ever since.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Give me Sun and 65f and I will be excited to touch the rock. I had 9f Thursday morning. 

Fourth morning this week with snow.

It's certainly been a dull dreary April so far. 

A couple mornings ago it was 20F with a high around 45F so what do I decide to do? Go for a paddle down a local river, basically training for a canoe race on the 19th, getting those paddle and portage muscles warmed up . We ran the first half smoothly, the portage around the falls turned out to be a beast of a half mile carry through the woods and the second half was going great until we slammed a rock hard and ended up going for a shallow water swim! I of course wasn't wearing appropriate clothing but had dry clothes only a mile away so hypothermia luckily didn't have a chance to set in.

Back to work Friday, the house I'm working on has the first daffodils to bloom in town, nice and sheltered South face

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Brad, I know I’ll get howled down for this, but I’m not sure I’d call that good pro. At Araps ‘chicken heads’ are great for slinging, esp with thin dyneema slings like in your pic. However, if the rest of the route is bolted, and with additional bolts one needs to sling those nobs to save a ground fall, why not another bolt? Of course I know all the ethics and rules around consent and consensus etc. 

Carl, the pitch is 5.4, the crux is higher (after several more bolts) and the photo makes it look steeper than it is. Either of those slung knobs would almost certainly hold a fall on this low-angle rock, especially the left one.

Of interest, the route has also seen thousands of ascents and there are no reports of anyone ever falling there to "test" them.

As you know, adding a bolt there now would be highly unethical without the first ascent party's' permission and they're both dead. 

I have no idea why the first ascent authors left this section bolt-less, but I can tell you that, in my thought, the need for more than just clipping a bolt adds some uniqueness, something different, that helps the pitch stand out from others like it.

Isidnar, yes, the tradition at Pinns is ground up, hand drilling FAs which makes the place stand out as unique among climbing venues nowadays. Making new routes there isn't for everybody. Three more things:

- The Park Service is likely to mandate this style of first ascent in their climbing management plan (if they ever finish it). They very much like how it limits the amount and style of bolting at the park (harder to grid bolt when drilling on lead, by hand);

- You'd be surprised at the number of really good routes at Pinnacles that are quite well protected now. Especially in the 5.5 to 5.10 range. That's become the style over the last 20 years: hand drilling on lead, but spacing the bolts a lot more closely (good also for older chicken-shits like me);

- I still call Josh "the Monument" now and then, even though it's been over 30 years.

Ward Smithwrote:

Fourth morning this week with snow.

I got a bit of a sunburn climbing in shorts and a tank top last weekend. We pay for mild winters come summertime though.

WF WF51wrote:

Eric Hoffer, "The True Believe. Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements," 1951. Decent explanation. 

Thanks I will check it out.

Brad Youngwrote:

- I still call Josh "the Monument" now and then, even though it's been over 30 years.

It will always be "The Monument" to me.   

Brad Youngwrote:

These two Star Dryvin bolts are more than 60 years old. They're now replaced with two one-half inch stainless steel ASCA bolts (didn't bother with shots of the new bolts):

Not to be overly pedantic...but if those SMC hangers were placed at the time the bolts were installed, they wouldn't be 60 years old.  Not sure when SMC started making hangers but had to be 1972 or later.  Horizontal "SMC" stamp.  Known in some circles as the "SMC death hanger".  Interesting that the hownot2 guys busted a few of those and they results were interesting...

Huge thanks for the effort to replace these!  Always enjoyed climbing at the Pinnacles and good to see some of this older hardware being updated.

Be fun to get back there some day...had a number of business trips to the Hollister area in the mid 80s' to 90's.  Fun area!  Cheers!

Brian in SLCwrote:

Not to be overly pedantic...but if those SMC hangers were placed at the time the bolts were installed, they wouldn't be 60 years old.  Not sure when SMC started making hangers but had to be 1972 or later.  Horizontal "SMC" stamp.  Known in some circles as the "SMC death hanger".  Interesting that the hownot2 guys busted a few of those and they results were interesting...

Huge thanks for the effort to replace these!  Always enjoyed climbing at the Pinnacles and good to see some of this older hardware being updated.

Be fun to get back there some day...had a number of business trips to the Hollister area in the mid 80s' to 90's.  Fun area!  Cheers!

Being pedantic is perfectly OK. Especially when you are correct. The hangers actually look like the older SMC model (they made them thicker, later) and so I think your time-line is correct.

Either way, these bolts were likely near the end of their usefulness ;)

For a comparison...here's likely similar vintage SMC hangers in situ on Coltrane in Red Rocks (1979 route):

Brad, do you know (or can you tell...magnet test) are the hangers stainless?  Unlikely I'd guess.  Those thicker stainless SMC hangers were/are pretty bomber.

Good stuff.  Thanks again!

Brian, I didn't  check the old hangers' thickness or whether they are made of carbon or stainless steel. I'm probably a little careless that way - if I'm pulling them out, they're just going straight into the trash.

I have a friend down there who's also replaced hundreds of bolts at Pinnacles. He keeps every replaced bolt set, in a baggie, labeled as to which route it came from and when it was replaced. I'm not sure what's gonna become of these when he's gone?

EDIT: Pinnacles is probably also unusual in the number of different types of bolts and hangers that have been placed there since the 1930s and '40s. From home-made angle iron hangers to drilled-through soft-iron horizontal pitons used for the same purpose, the variety is amazing. It's also not uncommon for us bolt replacers to leave some of this "history," especially as "third bolts" at belay stations.

Just finished this mud room between an old farmhouse and barn. butternut, pine and fir. 

A Bit out of plumb is an understatement.... 200year old barn and house. I did not build any of the walls.  I insulated and finished, had to make the floor reasonably flat but not level as you can see on the butternut bench. floor is 20 inch wide pine from local mill.

Very nice work. Looks like the walls are a bit out of plumb. Always a good time doing remodels/additions on old buildings...

Making it work under those conditions is the mark of true craftsmanship. Kudos.

Emil Briggswrote:

Thanks I will check it out.

A typo, I'm sure you saw it - The True Believer, not Believe. 

Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom, also addresses some of these issues, but it's a bit more dry than Hoffer's book. 

This topic has been automatically locked after having 1000 replies. You can create a new topic if there is more say.