New and experienced climbers over 50 #4

Dallas R wrote:

We have our Kayak guide gig April-May in Oregon, then we will go visit our son in Seattle, then start towards NH on US 2 around the first of June, it's about 3000 miles so we should be there by the middle of August or early September.  If we get bored in the UP we may get there sooner. By the time we get there we will really be looking for some climbing because I don't think there is much on our planned route.

Along with R Golds warning about black fly season I would add that if you are riding route 2 you might consider adding The Adirondack Park to your list, https://apa.ny.gov/About_Park/index.html. 

(The  Rockyrondacks.) Besides being the largest Park in the lower 48 it has, in my humble opinion a flavor unique to the Northeast.    

rgold wrote:

Yeah, the old farts at Supertopo would all know about these but elsewhere probably not.

Back in the Iron Age (pitons rather than nuts and cams), difficult direct aid often required placing pitons in very shallow cracks.  The piton (or nested group of pitons) stuck out a long way and clipping the eye usually created enough torque to twist a the piton in a vertical crack out of its placement or snap the shaft of a piton in a horizontal crack.  The solution was to tie off (via a girth hitch) the shaft of the piton flush with the wall, using a small loop of 1/2" webbing.  These loops were called hero loops in recognition of their users' willlingness to trust marginal placements.  The 1/2" webbing was very compact and it was typical to just stuff a bunch of hero loops in a pocket of one's climbing pants, where they often remained even if a big wall ascent was not in the offing.

Hero loops were also used in the eyes of pitons which, because of the placement, couldn't be clipped with a carabiner.  But that 1/2" webbing really wasn't up to much in the way of fall loading and the potential for the eye metal slicing the webbing was significant...

 What you don’t have on here is a keeper sling  if the piton comes out you lose the way it’s set up in the drawing 

Jeffrey Constine wrote:

 What you don’t have on here is a keeper sling  if the piton comes out you lose the way it’s set up in the drawing 

Not my drawing---the best I could do, and in any case the point was to illustrate what hero loops did, not the ideal way to rig them.  Typically, we clipped a second carabiner to the eye and through one strand of the hero loop, although that wouldn't work if the loop broke,  This was enough most of the time; occasionally the piton would be too long and an additional sling had to be added.

We used tied-off pitons for free-climbing protection too, but then the hero loops were usually 9/16" webbing loops.  These same loops became the slings for Bridwell's original quick draws.

beensandbagged wrote:

Along with R Golds warning about black fly season I would add that if you are riding route 2 you might consider adding The Adirondack Park to your list, https://apa.ny.gov/About_Park/index.html. 

(The  Rockyrondacks.) Besides being the largest Park in the lower 48 it has, in my humble opinion a flavor unique to the Northeast.    

The Dacks are fantastic and shouldn't be missed!

Mr. Goldstone, what the illustration you've posted shows is a tie off or, more properly, a hero loop used as a tie off.  My understanding (old climber here who's done more than a few walls) is that a hero loop is a tie off tied through or clipped into a biner at the top of an aider to use when that top rung on the aider ain't getting the job done. So, same thing perhpas but just used differently?

BTW, can't believe it's taken me this long to chime in on this thread.

Fat Dad wrote: Mr. Goldstone, what the illustration you've posted shows is a tie off or, more properly, a hero loop used as a tie off.  My understanding (old climber here who's done more than a few walls) is that a hero loop is a tie off tied through or clipped into a biner at the top of an aider to use when that top rung on the aider ain't getting the job done. So, same thing perhpas but just used differently?

BTW, can't believe it's taken me this long to chime in on this thread.

 Yes hero loops are a part of an aider they are on the top of the ladder to grab or to stand in if you need to they are not a free sling to tie off pins. 

rgold wrote:

I'm sure you have your reasons, but if you dropped down a little you could pass by Devil's Tower, the Needles in SD, and Devil's Lake Wi to name just a few classic areas.

We weren't quite proficient enough when we went to Devils, tower, we may attempt that once we go back.  The needles, we spent a summer working at the non-profit book store at Mt. Rushmore, so got to do a lot of climbing off the needles highway, Custer State Park, and the Mt. Rushmore area in general.  Totally love Second Hand Rose.... Conn routes scare the crap out of us. We did learn to simul-rap, interesting study on counter weight descents, my 220 vs her 130... and the effects of rope drag.

We stopped by Devils Lake a couple of years ago, found it to be chossy, un-inspiring.  But a good place to keep practiced.

Adirondacks, we have hiked there but weren't climbing the last time we went through there.  Because we are now "climb oriented" we will search and research the area.  My sister lives in Rochester, NY so we will definitely be in the area.

ErikaNW wrote:

That would be great! What’s the best season there?

"It depends".

I think most people probably think that the cool months in fall are best. However, you might get a rainy fall (this happened last year), and you get washed out. Or it gets cold really early (snow before Halloween). If you check the Whitehorse Ledge page, you'll see a small peak in Sept-Oct.

I like climbing in the spring, provided it's warm and dry enough (> 45F) and provided the snow has melted, but you can run into seeping water on some routes. There's a black fly season in spring-summer which can put a cramp in your style. This is usually the month of June approximately (sometimes late May to mid-June). So far as I can tell, there's no bug spray which works against black flies. If you can't tolerate bug bites, you will want to avoid this season. Some years it's bad, others not so much.

Climbing in the summer is great, too. However, it can be super hot. Whitehorse gets full sun for a large part of the day, and it can be brutal until you wend your way up into the trees (and there really aren't many trees on most of the slab routes. "Beginner's Easy" and "Cormier-Magness" are exceptions).

I guess you could say it's a sufferfest most of the year, but the climbing is so awesome, I cannot complain   

Dallas R - I'd highly, highly recommend you guys stop by the Gunks (esp Trapps) on the way. Not to be missed! Especially if you are looking for an optimal place to settle down, you don't want to overlook this area. Maybe you've been there before but wow. OTOH you may never get to NH if you stop there. I see from your tick list that you've climbed Cathedral's Thin Air and Standard Route at Square Ledge. I've only followed Thin Air, but I have a goal to lead it this summer (knock on wood, if I stay injury-free). Have you guys done any other routes in NH? Once you get here, if you are interested, we can recommend a few, and hopefully climb a few together.

Jeffrey Constine wrote: 

 Yes hero loops are a part of an aider they are on the top of the ladder to grab or to stand in if you need to they are not a free sling to tie off pins. 

As far as I know, the term "hero loop" first appeared in print in a 1967 American Alpine Journal article entitled On New Rock Climbing Equipment and its Use, written by Yvon Chouinard and Tom Frost and describing appropriate ways to use chromemolly pitons recently developed by the authors.  You can find the article, without the critical illustrations, at publications.americanalpine… , and a facsimile with the illustrations at static1.squarespace.com/sta… .

The article describes hero loops just as I did (except for using 9/16" webbing rather that the 1/2" webbing I mentioned).  Chouinard and Frost say,

It would be nearly impossible to describe the use of this new equipment without first describing the "hero loop” or tie-off cord. It is a 24 to 27-inch length of 9/16-inch-wide nylon webbing that has been tied to a loop with either a ring bend (double overhand) or a fisherman’s knot. Each climber carries about ten of these and they are used in an infinite variety of ways, a few of which we will describe in the course of this text.

If anyone cares to read the article, they will find that there is no mention of also using the hero loops to get high in one's etriers, although of course they could be and were used that way.  And of course people can and have altered this definition to suit their own ideas of true heroism.

But, on the authority of Chouinard and Frost, I'm sticking with my story.      

Lori Milas wrote: Wow.  I just checked in and saw all these great posts on slab climbing.  I'd like to see what a good a 5.11+ slab looks like...  

Lori, 

Ask and ye shall receive. There are two "purish" slab routes with pictures on Mountain Project that I am familiar with... Tender Vittles at Mt. Rushmore (5.11+) which is on my tick list for this coming year and the burly slab/arete classic Door Prize 5.11d at HCR. That one has a nasty hard reputation for the area, and I need to apprentice on a couple easier slabs there first. Some others at that grade that I am familiar with -- the big 95ft slab/arete testpiece Fat Cobra 11+ at Rushmore: Bouldered the start last year and came away really intimidated. Diamond Crystal Speedboat (11d) at HCR and also Amore Perros (11d/12a) a pure slab rout that seems perpetually wet and is thus rarely done. As I started climbing again Custer State Park last year a lot too... I bet that there are some tough slabs there as well. Need to research.

I anticipate the Tarifas working very well on TV-- I hope should say!

dragons wrote: Dallas R - I'd highly, highly recommend you guys stop by the Gunks (esp Trapps) on the way. Not to be missed! Especially if you are looking for an optimal place to settle down, 

Gunks is definitely on the list.  Settle down?  Not till I am an invalid.

 OTOH you may never get to NH if you stop there. 

LOL!!!

Have you guys done any other routes in NH? Once you get here, if you are interested, we can recommend a few, and hopefully climb a few together.

We drove down to Cathedral and hired a guide, hoping to get some much needed instruction.  I don't remember the name of the route he put us on, it was a huge slab.  We'll touch base when we get there.

Dallas R wrote: Settle down?  Not till I am an invalid.

LOL!!!

Dallas, At some point you might decide that it's nice to have a home base and travel from there. Seems like Utah could be that for you -- centrally located and with all the activities you like. (That's how we chose Boulder.)

Or not. 

Locker wrote: "It would be nearly impossible to describe the use of this new equipment without first describing the "hero loop” or tie-off "

Looks like both terms were used.

...which is exactly my point.  Hero loops, whatever the term eventually came to mean to some people, were originally tie-off loops.

wendy weiss wrote:

Dallas, At some point you might decide that it's nice to have a home base and travel from there

At some point, but not yet.

Dallas R wrote: At some point, but not yet.

Dallas watching you is a bit of a reminder that we now have some liberty we didn’t have before. I’m still trying to come to terms with it all!

My last trip to J Tree was intended to be miserable. I wanted to see how my favorite desert place would feel to me in the coldest part of winter, and when there was nothing to do, climbing in howling winds and biting cold...and all alone. I spent New Years Eve alone, never got a Christmas tree, and just spent a whole lot of time drifting. I intentionally did not climb the whole second week. I wanted it to be memorably awful but it wasn’t.
Each day that passed got better and I put off leaving. I just found stuff to do that made me want to stay an extra day and then another. I finally realized I am going to have to force myself to pack up and go and THAT drive was awful.  
This wanderlust and love of being non-stationary may be temporary for me. (Or maybe not). I think we each find a new balance or blend of how much stability and how much freedom we need.  I love having a home, but “home” might be more extended time in more places. We’re each finding out, aren’t we?

Mark Orsag wrote:

Lori, 

Ask and ye shall receive. There are two "purish" slab routes with pictures on Mountain Project that I am familiar with... Tender Vittles at Mt. Rushmore (5.11+) which is on my tick list for this coming year and the burly slab/arete classic Door Prize 5.11d at HCR. That one has a nasty hard reputation for the area, and I need to apprentice on a couple easier slabs there first. Some others at that grade that I am familiar with -- the big 95ft slab/arete testpiece Fat Cobra 11+ at Rushmore: Bouldered the start last year and came away really intimidated. Diamond Crystal Speedboat (11d) at HCR and also Amore Perros (11d/12a) a pure slab rout that seems perpetually wet and is thus rarely done. As I started climbing again Custer State Park last year a lot too... I bet that there are some tough slabs there as well. Need to research.

I looked at them all! I think Door Prize is my favorite!   But ummm...not yet! Maybe after you.   

I was thinking about this one...an easy 5.6 slab but still a little unnerving.  Had a lot of fun with this and lowering even more so. 

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06-fnbUdFrQ

Happy Saturday!

SWC and Cryptic 

ErikaNW wrote: I'll just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06-fnbUdFrQ

Happy Saturday!

It's delightful, Erika!  What great friends they are... and I think they've got the connection to earth and water down. 

But it reminded me of something unrelated I've been thinking about... I think this must be a personal issue: I have resisted the new wave of making fun of aging. (this video did not do that).  I stood in front of a card rack today at the nursery, and looked at all the cards ridiculing sagging muscles and breasts, jowls, loss of various ahem, bodily functions, and especially emphasizing the loss of sexuality.  I get that it's supposed to be funny... but first and foremost it's not always true.  I don't know how men deal with it, but I appreciate women who stay strong and lovely. (Helen Mirin comes to mind. and many others)  There's a sweet spot between being obsessed with looks or the loss of them, and just moving into senior-hood with grace and dignity.  If I have to laugh, I'd rather laugh at elders' being crazy wild and free, strong of will and body, and women holding their own in ways they never could before.