Adventure Projects is hiring a web engineer to join us in Boulder, CO
Mountain Project Logo

Routes in Nomad's Cave

Ali Nomad S 5.14b 8c 33 X+ 33 E9 7b
Cave Troll S 5.13d 8b 31 X 32 E8 7a
Compassion Fatigue S 5.14a 8b+ 32 X+ 32 E8 7a
Express Yourself S 5.13a/b 8a 29 IX+ 29 E7 6c
Freaks and Geeks S 5.14- 8b+ 32 X+ 32 E8 7a
Hard Day Mining S 5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c
Off the Books V11 8A
Pizza Dick aka Mother Nature S 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b
Predator S 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b
Predator X S 5.13a/b 8a 29 IX+ 29 E7 6c
Roid, The S 5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c
Sleven V11 8A
Unknown at Nomad aka Tommy's Hard Route S 5.13d 8b 31 X 32 E8 7a
Wheel of Fortune, The V13 8B
Order Wrong? Sort Routes
Type: Sport
FA: Pete Zoller
Page Views: 1,717 total · 8/month
Shared By: Peter Beal on Dec 31, 2000
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

You & This Route

10 Opinions

Your To-Do List:

Add To-Do · View List

Your Star Rating:

     Clear Rating

Your Difficulty Rating:

-none- Change

Your Ticks:

Add New Tick
Access Issue: Seasonal Raptor Closures Details


This is the leftmost chipped route in the cave. A hard boulder problem leads to straightforward pockets and a final crux. This is not be confused with "Hard Day Mining" which is another set of pockets that join it from the right.


4 bolts.


Real fun route be sure to get your feet way right when you are going to the pocket at the top. May 19, 2003
The Jug at the 3rd bolt is gone. It is now a slopey crimp and the crux is way harder.

Does anyone have any idea about how hard it is now???

I think it is possible a dry tooler broke the hold but I wasn't there so I can't say for sure. Jul 10, 2005
Tom C  
13c? I recommend preclipping the first two hanging chain-draws beta for the crux (follow each of these descriptions with a question mark as it is a work in progress), get the jug campus to the chipped left pocket, right foot on the jug, right hand toss to a crimp rail (slightly incut), match, both feet on jug, right hand to the crimp where the broken hold used to be, left hand to sidepull pinch, right foot on crimp rail, left foot drop knee against the west dihedral wall, left hand chipped pocket (crux), small dyno big reach to right hand chipped jug (clip), right foot to edge, right hand to undercling, match feet, right foot to jug far out right, left hand to pocket (redpoint crux), right hand chipped pocket by anchors, (clip). After doing Sonic Youth I got on this route, worked the moves and felt much harder than Sonic Youth (13a consensus). Feels like V8. Mar 1, 2006
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
I upgraded the route description to reflect the broken start. Maybe the drytooling fad can start breaking up Predator's drilled pockets and making a more "natural" route. (see comments on that route) May 6, 2008
Scott Hahn
Scott Hahn  
My two cents - This route is no where near 13c unless even more stuff has been ripped off since its most recent break. It was basically ridiculously soft 13a before - probably more like 12c. Then it broke which probably brought it up to 13a. At most it might be 13a/b - but by no means solid b let alone c. I also don't think it is fair to compare it to Sonic Youth which is a completely different climb with its crux almost right at the anchors so there is a definite pump factor involved. Aug 15, 2008
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Scott, thanks for the input. Let's see some more opinions before the final verdict. Sonic has long been considered 12d by many, even with the added finish. I felt that Express Yourself was solid 13a before. Aug 16, 2008
Luke Childers
Luke Childers  
Yea when I did this back in 2001 I sent on my 1st red point attempt. I had never don that at the 5.13c grade before... not 13c. I could buy 13a or 13b maybe but I just don't see it. I usually have to work for my 13 sends and this thing was like licking cake. Nice drilled route... right....

Luke Childers Jun 25, 2009
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Luke, it broke after 2001. Try it now and let me know. Jun 26, 2009
Luke Childers
Luke Childers  
Hey Peter,
I may be over at the cave to try "Freaks and Geeks" and may give this one another look since a hold broke. Which hold broke? Is it the 1st starting crimp or what? I just remember that one crimp and then the rest of the line consisted of pockets I thought. Have not been on it since 2001 so my memory of the features and moves are troublesome. Aug 13, 2009
Luke Childers
Luke Childers  
I found where a hold broke on this line. I could still see the outline of where the older much larger hold once existed. Although the climbing sequence is the same you just have a smaller/crimp/sloper hold for your right hand on the opening sequence of the climb. So, I can buy the difficulty up grade and did feel that the line was a bit harder, but only by one move. I think 13b/c is an ok ball park figure now. Aug 13, 2009
Derek Young
Denver, CO
Derek Young   Denver, CO
Heads up, team. The bolts are starting to look a little sketchy on this one - and others in the cave. Any plans/interests in upgrading the gear? Nov 27, 2017

More About Express Yourself