Type: Boulder
FA: unknown
Page Views: 4,247 total · 19/month
Shared By: Patrick Vernon on Dec 31, 2000
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

You & This Route

37 Opinions

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This is a classic line that is rated V3 in all the guidebooks but feels at least V4 to me, oh well, ratings smatings.

Start on the center left of the wall on some jugs. Throw a heel in an obvious jug and move with the right hand up and into a shallow, three finger pocket, mantle onto your left foot, and pinch two dicey pebbles to reach the top.


Strong fingers.


Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
This is hard and has a crappy landing as well on rocks and roots. Be careful! Oct 16, 2002
Is it just me, or is this problem the biggest sandbag at Flagstaff?

Its probably mostly the former, but Eric Varney and Red Wall Right Side seem significantly easier. Oct 16, 2002
Patrick Vernon
Estes Park, CO
Patrick Vernon   Estes Park, CO
This problem is a sandbag, yes, but the biggest sandbag of all for the V3 grade has got to be Milton in Eldo.

-pat Dec 13, 2002
V3 my ass! In contrast to the other Red Wall boulder problems, this one favors short people. The mantle move is super scrunchy. If you are tall and/or inflexible and/or not good with pockets, this classic could give you more trouble than some Vhard rated problems. Sep 26, 2003
Chip Phillips
Broomfield, CO
Chip Phillips   Broomfield, CO
Pat Ament called Center Left B5.10 in the Third Edition of High Over Boulder, which usually equates to V2 or V3. That said, his descriptions over the years in High Over Boulder suggest one starts with their right hand high up in the shallow pocket. As everyone knows, Philip Benningfield's modus operandi is to never uprate problems. The lowest rating he ever hears out of anyone's mouth is what you will see in his books and that is the grade you usually hear sprayed out at the boulders.

IMHO, starting even that high is still V3/4 as the next move to the crystal pinch is pretty clutch. Starting lower is most definitely harder as you have to do all that footwork and then the very long move holding almost all your body on that shallow right hand. I suggest V5 for the lower start that almost everyone these days tries to do. This one is just a tad easier than Varney Direct, which I feel approaches V6, but that's a whole nuther issue.

In any event, one of five 3 star problems on this boulder's west face (Center Left, Standard Route, Red Wall Direct, Moffat Direct and Right Side) ... one of the highest concentrations of 3 star problems anywhere. Of course, that's my opinion and there are those who hold Flag in lesser regard.

To them, I say ... "that's like your opinion dude."

peace out Sep 26, 2003
I'd have to agree on the whole height thing here. At 5'9" this problem is doable for me more times than not; whereas the right problem is doable much fewer times. Jul 16, 2004
Make sure you have a spotter and a crash pad when you reach up for the crystal. I didn't and landed right on my heel, I think I cracked the bone. Anyways, Center Left doesn't play well those that are 6 ft tall. It may have been V3 back before the crowds and erosion, but I think it's closer to V4. Mar 10, 2006
Kenneth Noisewater
San Diego
Kenneth Noisewater   San Diego
As a Flag new-comer (a measely 11 years since my first floundering on the Monkey Traverse) I feel this "may" need a grade reveiw. ???

I understand that the real regulars with 25-30 years of flag visits think this one is pretty straightforward, but sh&t dude- that thing is hard.

I have done Hagan's, Bob's Bulge, Poling Pebbles, Just Right (to the slab 8 times), etc... And still center left eludes me.

V4, is still pretty conservative. Jul 12, 2007
Northglenn, CO
llamaface   Northglenn, CO
Every time I get on this problem I feel so close; but alas, it always eludes me. I have never projected a V3 for so long... it puts a smile on my face.
-You ridiculous V3... I WILL stand on top and look down upon you! Oct 20, 2007
Captain Derp
Captain Derp  
There's a smaller two-finger pocket just down and left of the good one. I get my left in that (after getting the right), flip my right heel to a toe, and bring my left foot up to the starting hold/jug to stand up for the pinch. To me, it feels better than doing a foot-to-hand match. Aug 9, 2009
My guidebook says V4, and I would have to agree. I found that the key move for me was lowering my right foot after I reached the right hand pocket. May 4, 2014