Stuck climber super crack buttress

Dirtbag Betawrote:

I'd shoot El Capitan with a nuke to save the life or limb of a friend or loved one. Nothing is more precious than human life. 

How many ton of rock were displaced to pave the parking lot below Supercrack Buttress just so we could pack in more sprinter vans?

We're debating where drilling < 1ft² of rock to potentially save someone's life is justified? 

What have we become?

I’m saying I can see how somebody would get to debating it, because the difference between “acceptable” and “unacceptable” is not as stark as people make it out to be.

Dirtbag Betawrote:

I'd shoot El Capitan with a nuke to save the life or limb of a friend or loved one. Nothing is more precious than human life. 

How many ton of rock were displaced to pave the parking lot below Supercrack Buttress just so we could pack in more sprinter vans?

We're debating where drilling < 1ft² of rock to potentially save someone's life is justified? 

What have we become?

I'm with Dirtbag Beta, that's the right take.

I do believe its cubic feet.

We, as humans, are absolutely not special.  Nature is special.  But we alter it for our own pleasure or gain.  Such are our ways.    

Shit happens when you party naked

Dirtbag Betawrote:

Nothing is more precious than human life. 

What is your take on abortion? 

To be explicitly clear - In this case we aren't talking about a human life - we are talking about some leg pain. And while probably intense pain, it should be discussed. 

You still havent shared if youre on a SAR team, grug, before you ask about something so absurd as abortion on mp, brah.  

Do you help, or just judge?

If youre wondering what can happen if the leg isnt freed in a reasonable amount of time... Look up compartment syndrom. Essetially after a few hours the climber is often compensating for the injury in some way, if this goes on they can go into compensatory then decompesatory shock and death despite otherwise being healthy (from what i am told im not a doctor)
So, it might not seem like it but ya this is actually about a human life, or the loss of a major limb due to amputation which in the creek would be both difficult and dangerous. 

Do i want to see the rock damaged? no, but we damage the rock plenty just by climbing it in the creek, you can see it so obviuously in all of the patina removal and gradual widening of cracks in the creek/zion etc... were there other options in this case? maybe, i wasnt there.  probably better to mar a small part of a single crack then to have to take off someones leg or have them die. 

Stileswrote:

I do believe its cubic feet.

We, as humans, are absolutely not special.  Nature is special.  But we alter it for our own pleasure or gain.  Such are our ways.    

Shit happens when you party naked

We're not talking about the last polar bear (which I'd also nuke to save a loved one... or a stranger), we're talking about a *cubic for of sandstone. 

And speak for yourself. You and yours might not be special, but me and mine are absolutely special. 

I'm sincerely sorry that you feel that way

Andrew Rice wrote:

I blocked that person a long time ago but if I'm not mistaken about who he is, Grug left a finger in a crack once.

I mean, does that not back up his argument? Ive always found him personally objectionable, but at least he has the bona fides

Dirtbag Betawrote:

We're not talking about the last polar bear (which I'd also nuke to save a loved one... or a stranger), we're talking about a *cubic for of sandstone. 

And speak for yourself. You and yours might not be special, but me and mine are absolutely special. 

I'm sincerely sorry that you feel that way

So clearly 1 cubic foot is too little to care about (and I agree). What about a thousand? A million? Are *all* people deserving of destroying a million cubic feet? From the Buddha to Hitler and everywhere in between? Or just some people? Is it ok because SAR did it? I’ve known SAR to deputize folks to help with searches; are those randos also just as qualified to make a decision around life-saving destruction of non-renewable resources? How severe must the risk be? Can we destroy the rock if compartment syndrome is not likely, and exposure is adequately addressed, and it’ll just take a while for the heavy equipment to arrive and move a boulder?

The point I’m trying to make is not “a single route at Supercrack Buttress is worth more than a person’s leg”. That’s obviously ridiculous. It’s that where you actually draw the line between acceptable and unacceptable is not clear cut. And while I don’t agree with the assessment that this destruction was unwarranted, I can definitely see how they got there.

Ok so here we are talking about 1 cubic foot of rock to save a life, while right next door in AZ they are destroying an ungodly amount of rock and sacred land for the Oak Flat copper mine. Y’all are still using copper I imagine?

Freeing a leg by removing a little rock on a 40’ pitch of 5.9 is a non-issue. Breaking the rock is not standard practice and is a last resort for the SJC SAR.

Those of you that see yourself defending the rock?

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Those of you that see yourself defending the rock?

       

No kidding. Lol

This is just advanced pin scarring.

I have all my fingers.

Glad the person is okay and was able to walk away. Hopefully no one else gets stuck and needs free-ing of any kind. 

i am totally guessing here, and i could very well be wrong, but i am pretty sure the climber in question didn't wake up that morning, sip on their coffee and think "i am going to come up with a plan to chip out a chunk of that 5.9 at supercrack".

Iz K wrote:

Do y’all (those who proclaim “protect the rock”) realize how much goes into developing a crag to climb? Clearing the landing zone, cleaning the rock of vegetation and dirt, drilling, and trundling…

The first rule of fight club…

And hyperbole rears it's ugly head yet again.

Do y’all (those who proclaim “protect the rock”) realize how much goes into developing a crag to climb?

Do you hack out sections of crack, in your "development?" 

I don't care that they decided to chop the climber out. But I don't care about your development either.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

Do you hack out sections of crack, in your "development?" 

Only when their fingers don’t quite fit, or a “clipping hold” needs to be created. lol