New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

Still have such fond memories of Smokestack, Dan… Almost 17 years since we did that on December 5, 2008.

Went to the Kern River with some friends. The weather and the climbing was perfect. We tried to go to Dome Rock but got turned back by snowy conditions on the DR road. I didn’t think it was smart to drive down to Dome Rock because it’s down hill and would be iced up at the end of the day. So we went back down canyon and went to “Roadkill” a 13 face climb that Yanaro did and the “Roadkill Crack” 10D something. 

Dragons…. Good take on senior discount's. I order from the Denny’s 55 menu LOL. You can make money with your senior card.
I go with my younger buddies and offer to pay the camping fees then they give me money for the CG fees…. I skim off the top.

Jesus draw ….. a light draw with a locker on each end. Use when failures are not acceptable.

Lori…. Come on. Do get that green house going this year. I want to see photos of tomatoes, broccoli, cabbage, corn and all the other wonderful stuff you can grow in the desert in the winter. Time is running out.

Happy Climbing all. 

Winter has arrived here in N/E Wyoming. The new house is tight and warm, but they're still doing interior trim; kitchen, baths, etc. We'll be in before the end of the month unless we get a major storm. We're two miles of graded gravel road off the state highway. The county plows to my property line, which leaves me with about 1/4 mile to clear with a plow on my jeep. Of course I can always pass the county guy a $20 and he'll knock it off with a smile...

Cabinet guys drive RAM's.

I had the idea that we should put a roof over the heat pumps. Looks like I was right.

Happy holidaze everyone. By Christmas I'll be sitting on the other side of that wall in front of a warm fire, feet up on the hearth, sipping a good single malt...

On the subject of climbing, I do foresee a few TR anchors getting installed atop this excellent sandstone rim-rock bluff just uphill from the house. I was poking around up there two years ago and spooked a full grown male elk. He was laying there, and just stood up about 50 feet in front of me. We were equally surprised and he turned and pranced away, but he scared the crap out of me. Huge creature. 

Anyone want to do a bit of climbing on this nearby crag, let me know...

Bill Lundeenwrote:

Still have such fond memories of Smokestack, Dan… Almost 17 years since we did that on December 5, 2008.

Wow! Time flys. The Wheeler Ridge is such a cool stretch of earth, so much fun to be had.

Towers above Mayfield Canyon

Impeccable features of the Soaring Eagle Tower

The east aspect of Soaring Eagle Tower. We set off intending to climb  an old Galen Rowell FA but none of the features matched the description, so we started up the face a hundred or so feet left of the pine tree. The climbing soon became challenging and in the middle of the second pitch we found a few nuts that a previous party bailed from. We persevered and after two more tough pitches the climbing eased off and a few pitches later we topped out. A year or so later, an older prolific climber moved to our neighborhood. We struck up a conversation about climbing and he asked if I had climbed the Soaring Eagle Tower. I told him about the unknown route that we climbed and told him about the old bail anchor that we found. He shook his head and laughed and proceeded to tell me about his attempt of the same line 25 years earlier and described the pitch and his anchor with perfect accuracy. Did we climb Rowell’s route? Was the description just wildly inaccurate? We will never know. What a cool circle of climbers we exist in. We decided to keep quiet about our climb to preserve the opportunity for adventure to live on for future climbers. I can’t believe that I ended up here. 

Eric pulling out of a difficult chimney on “Unknown Adventures”, Soaring Eagle Tower, Wheeler Ridge, California. 

John Gillwrote:

Times change . . .

The heelhook method changed the difficulty of this problem completely and still is controversial among Flagstaff aficionados as a way to claim a repeat of the original problem. Also Paige and Angie are top level climbers, the former with a number of 14d routes and the latter a number of V13s to their credit.

Emil Briggswrote:

Accumulation of wealth as one ages is to be expected. But remember the baby boom generation was enormous. Coupled with wealth accumulation that creates economic and social problems that can be hard to deal with so yes it's a problem.

But what is the problem, could you expand on that? I could understand it being a problem if the baby boomer cohort were huge and poor.

And if you're my age your student debt would have been a fraction of what kids today average. A good part of that is people our age had political clout and wanted lower taxes which we got. So a larger fraction of college costs today is borne by students than in the past (some state schools even used to offer free tuition into the 1970s!) which is part of the reason US class mobility has nose dived since the 80s.

Absolutely, my student debt was much lower than the average of today. But the point I was trying to make was "young and poor" is to be expected. Old and poor is way more of a problem - for the individuals and also for society. The kind of problem that social security was designed to address.

(FWIW I have never wanted lower taxes, they are already too low.)

Emil Briggswrote:

"Accumulation of wealth as one ages is to be expected. But remember the baby boom generation was enormous. Coupled with wealth accumulation that creates economic and social problems that can be hard to deal with so yes it's a problem."

dragonswrote:But what is the problem, could you expand on that? I could understand it being a problem if the baby boomer cohort were huge and poor."

As Emil already said, the problem is that wealth mobility has greatly declined.  This is in addition to the huge decrease in wealth and income equity.  Look at any reputable index.  It's the opposite of what was promised by the lying trickle downers.  
Together these mean that we now have a young generation who for the first time in American history can expect to do LESS well than their parents.

the cost of living is pretty wild these days..  between health insurance going up $117.00 a month starting in January. thank you repugs, and the work truck that I just finished paying off last months is condemned due to a rusted frame so now I have to buy another truck that the state will then render useless by salting the piss out of the roads.  On top of a very sluggish economy, thank You Repugs.  thats making my immediate financial health feel pretty insecure... 

I have been thinking A LOT about 'aging' and wealth, and climbing. And more.  I've had a lot of time to marinate on it and suddenly encountering some brand and very hopeful new insights.

I've been realizing that when I moved here I just sorely needed a break.  I have spent six years just playing, hiking, climbing, wandering and exploring.  As I've wandered around Joshua Tree I have taken such delight in seeing what was... who was here, the marvels of climbing that occurred here.  

I've also asked along the way what it means to be 'old'.   One of the obstacles has been the cultural thing, among climbers especially, of being stoned, free and carefree.  The feeling that caring about health is 'obsessive'.  

I ran into a picture of a 19 year old me the other day.  It was a great object lesson... that girl didn't ever have to think about health. Or grams of protein. Or getting high, or not.  Or hitch hiking, safety or what's next in life.  I'm waking up to the fact that I/we are in a whole different world of being now... being 'over 50' is a new deal.  And I'm embracing it.

So... when I put music aside for awhile, I started to listen to a podcase series called "Acquired".  First of all, it's intelligent.  i listened to a full 9 hours on a company called Nvidia, whose CEO is brilliant Jensen Huang. The dude is 62, and at the top of his game.  He has taken on the entire tech industry, and his company is now valued at $4.37 Trillion.  

.

I called my daughter, the techie in our family, driving home in her car.  "Oh, wow, mom, I'm driving by Nvidia right now!"  She was on a Sunnyvale freeway.  Besides wanting to be schooled in deep learning, AI, processors, something called CUDA...it was just so inspiring.  

I suggested that Tony and I drive up to Sunnyvale to meet up with some of my grandkids and we do a tour.  Nvidia has two main headquarters, the Endeavor and the Voyager. The Endeavor has a central design of an undulating heart, environmentally conscientious, 750,000 sq feet.  

Maybe it's the politics of today?  I have cried buckets discovering artists, scientists, philosophers... who are 'old'... who could never wear that label.  

IMO, watching Page play not too long ago, (video), I thought he was better, far more visionary a musician at 81 years of age than he was at 25.  

Suddenly every direction I look is with 'over 50' people in their prime. The future is opening out in a way I really needed.  i've been paying closest attention to Ward...there's much to appreciate that the climbing world isn't just for youth who called themselves dirtbags.   Strong, skilled and intelligent climbers are far more than 'duffers'.  And I am still trying to fit myself in that continuum between the old, sick and frail who I do see so much of... and the vibrant leaders who are at the apex of all their talents.  

----

I often ask how much of aging is just about following a script... if even mindlessly.  I stand behind a dozen fairly ill, slow and sorry seniors in the market... I think subconscious assumptions are made.  This is one of the liabilities of moving to a rural, underserved population.  It is making me think a lot about going back to work. 

I'm packing my backpack tonight.  On Friday I'm going to climb... in whatever capacity... I'm nervous.  It's been 5 months.  A long, slow recovery.  I have told myself, whatever I do, it will be 'good enough'.  

If I have to ponder, there's no better place to do it. I've been wondering about that arete.  

Lori, don't believe all you hear/read.  Nvidia has been a good GPU supplier for a long time.  They have recently pinned their future on AI.  At this point they are close to a big bounce from the high they are at.  AI is failing badly in most business applications and there is going to be a correction soon.  Hopefully it isn't as big as the dot com bubble of 2000/2001 but all the signs are heading in that direction.

I ran into a picture of a 19 year old me the other day.  It was a great object lesson... that girl didn't ever have to think about health. Or grams of protein. Or getting high, or not.  Or hitch hiking, safety or what's next in life.  I'm waking up to the fact that I/we are in a whole different world of being now... being 'over 50' is a new deal.  And I'm embracing it.

Something a philosophy guy talked to me about the internal witness. The internal witness is the consciousness looking out through your eyes. You. He said the internal witness is ageless.

The "me" in my body is the same me as when I was 10. The internal witness watches its body live, grow, decay and (presumably) die. What happens to it after that is not what I'm talking about.

The internal witness is always always always NOW. It doesn't live in the past nor the future. 

Some of us are more tuned to now, than others. Worries don't arise from now, worries arise from fear over the future. I have fears of my future, don't we all? But climbers (and plenty of others of course) are used to witnessing fear, feeling it, fretting over it, then setting it to the side, and climbing now, right into those fears. On the lead we get closer and closer to being fully in the moment, fully alive and NOW. 

My climbing is not about reclaiming my youth. My climbing is not about silly goals for 2026 and beyond. Separate topic I suppose  - planning, I hate it. 

My climbing is about now. When I'm climbing I'm the exact same person, that I was when I started climbing over 50 years ago. Never let a day go by....

dragonswrote:

That's right, thanks Al! I hope there will be some climbable days before the year ends, but right now it's not looking good. And part of the difficulty will be finding people who are willing to climb in relatively colder temps. 10-day forecast ranges from partly cloudy and cold to mixed precipitation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For many years a group of climbers used to get together for a few routes at The Gunks on Boxing Day. I went one year and had a blast. Met RGold, TradGirl, and several other celebrities, and we all enjoyed ourselves. Maybe you could bring back the tradition! 

GO

Lori, apropos your concerns about aging, be reassured that in Boulder healthy aging is taken very seriously, with many good options available.  Here's an ad from "Boulder Lifestyle" magazine (I hope it's readable):

^^^^
That is hysterical…

Illustrates the concentration of wealth issue for Dragons.

Oh man!  Brilliant bunch of posts (or I'm just overly jacked from my 3 morning Espressos???)!

Dan Shively:  Thanks for all of your photos, man they inspire me!  Smokestack looks amazing and I ALMOST added it to my MP "To Do" (really a dream) list and then read about the massive run outs on 5.10 trad terrain.  Maybe in the next life! 

Alan!  Have you climbed Smokestack?  I know that you were/are a worlds better climber than I have ever been or will ever be but I feel like I can really relate to your risk aversion and yet you've climbed everything!  (I got a first hand feel for this risk aversion when I did not protect a move on a route in the Gunks enough a few months ago and Alan just was B!tching me out for I'm not sure how many minutes prior to making the move up and over while following me!  And, of course, he was right!  I'm still so SORRY Alan!  ;) 

Guy:  Love the term "Jesus Draw", adding it to my lexicon (and rack).  Never had heard or thought about that idea.  And Rich, I've followed you on a few pitches now and never saw you use one.  Probably because these were all routes that you solo regularly?

Kristian!  Holy FECKING gorgeous property and house!  Man, that's the dream right there!  I loved the one time I climbed Devil's Tower.  Swapped leads on Durrance about 3 years ago in late November or early December and had the summit all to ourselves.  What an other-worldly experience!

Lori:  My Brother-in-law has a Ph.D. in Computer Science and had worked at Cray for years but about ten years ago he jumped ship and started to work for Nvidia.  He's now very high up in the company and went from a comfortable income to the upper stratosphere of wealth.  He's diversified enough that if the Nvidia/AI bubble bursts he's safe for a few lifetimes but man oh man, talk about a smart move!  And no, I have not seen any of that wealth come my way at all!  (nor should it!  Hell, I don't even believe in lotteries.  I think that one should earn their own money "fairly and deservedly" but that's for another whole thread!)

Cherokee:  Brother, I'd love to climb with you someday.  Love your posts and philosophy/thoughts.  I see your "Internal Witness" (another term that I've never encountered) very much like Zen philosophy and while I am always all over the place with about ten thoughts going o in my head, I've never felt so "centered" and "in the now" like when I am on trad lead.

Right!  Back to clinic!

Oh! Quick edit:  Cherokee, not sure about this statement, though:  "... silly goals for 2026 and beyond."  Goals keep me getting after it and inspired.  Maybe it makes me a lower level mental philosophically inadequate climber but I love them.  I don't stress about them, I don't get upset when I don't make them, but I do love having them out there for myself.  But don't worry, I will not make it a goal to share a rope with you! (although I still want to!) ;)

Take no offense to my planning comments. Its entirely personal, and had nothing to do with my train of thought, shouldn't have typed it. 

But its true I resist planning. Like a vacation - the extent of my planning is deciding where to go. What we do when we get there, I generally refuse to participate in activity planning. I prefer to wing it than a schedule. I prefer to go in rather ignorant and let me discover things as I stumble about. Actually love that sort of travel!

The utter irony is my company makes and sells enterprise planning software for retail. I can tout all benefits of good planning, they are enormous! I've been in meetings where when talking to real, professional planners - "planning is something we sell, but its not something I do." I always get side long glances when I say shit like that. I probably shouldn't.

Good morning Buck, No, I  haven't climbed Smokestack or anything beyond low-level cragging on the Eastside--though love Daniel and James's ( and others) beautiful photos from there.

I am indeed risk adverse, always have been, though, climbing being climbing, that doesn't mean that I haven't found myself in risky situations on occasion. Much of my climbing has been on the 'dull end', but even that isn't always without risk. One reason that I was so uncomfortable that day, and am always concerned about adequately protecting followers on a traverse, is that I once had the rope I was following on cut well into the core, when I took an inadequately protected pendulum fall while following a pitch ( 2nd pitch, Book of Solemnity, Cathedral Ledge, early '70s).

Lori, I agree that it is very important to keep active and to remain positive as we get older, but we also need to be realistic that there are, in fact, inevitable impacts of aging, and that those impacts effect each of us differently and in ways that even with our best efforts, we can't control. So while some of the 'peers'  whom you have observed so impacted by physical and psychological signs of aging, may have themselves to 'blame' for their conditions, that is far from always the case. Over the summer I lost a friend who had always been the strongest, fittest, most gung-ho amongst our group, who worked very hard to 'do everything right' in terms of nutrition, etc. He seemed fine when we saw him in early June, but in mid-July was discovered to have an aggressive brain cancer and was gone by October. We all must live our lives as best as we can but always with the understanding that we don't know what will happen tomorrow.

Hi Buck, I’m happy that you enjoy the photos, and don’t let the MP route listings psyche you out too much. Smokestack is definitely not a sport route, but the cruxes are pretty well protected with modern gear and the runouts are probably in the 5.6 to 5.7 range. I think much of the aura surrounding Smokestack is due to the steep, 1000’ of gain approach, and climbers choosing the wrong season to climb it. I think all of my times climbing this route have been in late fall or early winter. The rest of the year it is usually much too hot and in direct sun. I’m sure that those slabby parts feel much more desperate when it’s hot and climbers are already worked from sweating up a long, sunny gully. My experience has shown me many times that a rating that seems relevant in good conditions can seem completely sandbagged when it’s too hot. 

Hi Alan, yeah, the Sierra is a beautiful place, it seems like any direction that I look is pleasing to my eyes/soul. I’m always happy to share my brief glimpses of this place with interested people. 

Seven Gable and Peak 12,640 from a cool window on the North Ridge of Feather Peak

A fun ridge with great scenery. Vee Lake and the Bear Lakes are incredible spots to visit. 

 Cherokee. i am with you on the no plans thing. when we road trip we usually wing it and only contact friends  out west when we are in their zip code. Hey how's it going? were  in town.., thats much less stress than driving 2,500 miles to meet someone at a certain time and date.. Not saying I can't or wont make plans but its more freedom just winging it.. 

took a break from the vehicle hunt yesterday and did a ski tour on mt wishicouldtellya. it's real winter here and has been since about Nov 10th.