New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

M M wrote:

Archie Bunker has entered the house I see.

By today's 'standards', Archie Bunker is a 'commie liberal'!!!!

Alex +2

Daniel Shively wrote:

Oh man, I think I met Bill early 2000’s around Tuolumne. Maybe a bit before he started working at the TPR. What a great man, climbing partner, and conversationalist. We’ve kind of lost touch, but I’d love to run into him again. If you still see him regularly, please tell him that Denise and I think of him and would be psyched to re connect if he’s ever around the eastside. Cool photo, and yeah, the headband is always present when rock climbing. 

Bill Lundeen, on the route “Bush the Imbecile”, Tranquility Wall, Wheeler Crest, California.

I’ve seen him post here (not recently) so I hopes that he might lurk and maybe these photos will pull him out of the shadows.

Cheers!

Small world indeed! I just emailed Bill about this discussion. He is a fantastic human and a great friend.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

My question for Alex is how old are you and how active and healthy are you now. There is no doubt that we are what we eat. The most important factor in longevity is genetics but either way if you eat Total crap it won't help and if you eat really healthy it will help.

Genetics plays a minor role in longevity, for most people at least. Maybe 20-30%. Only at the extreme, for those who live to 100+, there are a few super aging genes. But those are rare.

Exercise, diet, sleep, substance use, social connections, and stress are the modifiable factors involved in healthy aging. While there are no guarantees, if you do everything “right”, you may add up to a decade or two to your life, and decrease suffering in the end.

None of the stuff advocated by credible longevity science involves huge sacrifice, imo. I’m not talking about “biohacks”, artisanal bread, or butter in your coffee, but a few less bologna sandwiches may help.

Perma you are dead fucking wrong. Genetics is massive. Healthy living helps tremendously but genetics is King.  Richard Simmons is dead as fucking doornail and Kieth Richards is still rocking.. is what it is

A couple of more views of Pingora

View from our campsite.  Team Mythos meets at the top of Pingora

Two classics at the City.  Skyline and Lost Arrow

Any climbers on this thread live in Western North Carolina?  Moved here (Asheville area) a few years ago, went through some health issues (all good now) and ready to get back on the rock.  69 y/o, 25 years of climbing.  Would love to connect with some other old farts who climb for the sheer enjoyment, not the grades (since I'm a 5.easy kind of guy at the moment).

1. Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Perma you are dead fucking wrong. Genetics is massive. Healthy living helps tremendously but genetics is King.  Richard Simmons is dead as fucking doornail and Kieth Richards is still rocking.. is what it is

And Jeanne Calment, the oldest person who ever graced the planet, smoked until she was 117!

Anecdotes aside, the 20-30% genetic contribution to longevity isn’t my stat.

But even if you think the scientists who study aging are wrong, you must believe behavior has some influence on how long you’ll live, no? If so, how much would you be willing to alter your habits to live another 5, 10, 15 years?

Permabeta wrote:

Agree Nick.  Always pays to look at family history when choosing your parents, LOL.  But seriously,  the female side of the family has a pretty good correlation to longevity based on my limited observations.  Male side, not so much.  

You just never know.

One of my grandfathers started smoking and drinking in his mid teens, meat n tater diet, 50 lbs. overweight and died in his sleep 2 weeks short of his 100th birthday. 

My other grandfather never smoked or drank alcohol, same diet, not overweight and died of a heart attack age 65.

Go figure, YMMV

Carry on...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8836117/

Here’s a good review detailing the different genes that have been implicated in longevity. These authors attribute 40% of lifespan to genetics. That would make genetics the largest individual contributor to lifespan since none of the other factors - smoking, alcohol and drug use, nutrition, exercise, other lifestyle (marital status, meditation, stress, laughter, etc), socio- economic status, environmental pollution, career, etc - individually count for 40%. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

...

Dragons, you are a 'hard woman' climbing today. I was just driving by the Gunks this afternoon and the chilly wind was very noticeable--and provided no incentive to detour to do a route!!!

Not exactly a hard woman, since I followed everything - with difficulty! Here I am on Layback, an incredibly hard 5.5, with its chimney followed by a difficult traverse.
I wore my winter jacket the entire time. It was a raw day, indeed.

AI tells us:

The "nature versus nurture" debate explores the long-standing question of whether human traits and behaviors are shaped more by genetics ("nature") or by environment and experiences ("nurture"). While early views often favored one side, modern science recognizes that both factors are deeply intertwined and constantly interact. Genetics provide a predisposition, but environmental factors can influence how those genes are expressed, making it a complex interplay of both forces.

The " complex interplay" is sometimes known as epigenetics:

Epigenetics is the study of how behaviors and environment can cause changes that affect the way genes work without altering the underlying DNA sequence. These changes, which can be passed down through cell divisions or even generations, turn genes "on" or "off" and can be influenced by factors like diet, stress, and toxins. For example, epigenetic modifications can make it easier or harder for cells to read a gene's instructions, influencing everything from development to disease risk. 

BTW ,Jeanne Calment, the French Lady referenced above, most likely did not regularly smoke. She would often do so when journalist would come around on the occasion of her birthday , and knowing she could be encouraged to talk, would offer her a cigarette or two and then take a photo of her puffing away. Calment lived in Arles, France and remembers as a little girl selling Van Gogh colored pencils at her parents market stall. She lived from 1875 until 1997.

phylp phylp wrote:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8836117/

Here’s a good review detailing the different genes that have been implicated in longevity. These authors attribute 40% of lifespan to genetics. That would make genetics the largest individual contributor to lifespan since none of the other factors - smoking, alcohol and drug use, nutrition, exercise, other lifestyle (marital status, meditation, stress, laughter, etc), socio- economic status, environmental pollution, career, etc - individually count for 40%. 

That’s higher than I’ve seen quoted, but regardless, the majority isn’t in the genes.*

That’s great news, because it means we can actually do something to influence our life- and healthspans.

*Also, that number appears to be the upper limit of what is potentially heritable. From your article:

“Longevity of human life is heritable from 20% to 40% in the modern human populations“

I got my Ph.D from the Biochemistry Department at BU Med School. The research of almost the whole Department was focused on aging, as the Chairman was one of the world experts in the Biochemistry of aging.  My first lab rotation involved studying changes in histone acetylation in aging rats. (Histones are one of the components of chromatin, which is what the complex of DNA and its associated proteins in the nucleus is called.) Wistar rats continue to grow in size as the age and I can tell you, the process having to euthanize a very large squirming heavy radioactive rat is pretty gruesome. Other people in the department studied the aging of connective tissue, mostly collagen and elastin, which I have written about here before.

This is my contribution of the day, since I didn't take any photos of climbing in Pine Creek and the Gorge on my recent trip.  I wanted to climb at the Gong show area in Rock Creek, but the very big log that has been used for years to get over the creek seems to have snapped in half, and I felt too unsteady with the weight of the pack containing the full trad rack and draws and the massive amount of fluid I need to drink in a day out to get across the steps across now needed.  The narrow log is still there but I would have had to butt scoot over that one and it seemed too tedious. I really really want someone to develop the app which is the equivalent of Uber but for porters.

I got to do 4 new to me routes up in the area near Main Line, which have been on my list for a while, and backed off one that had a easy enough grade but was awkward and kind of strenuous and insecure near the bottom with a potential fall onto a sloping ledge if that piece had pulled. Made the snap decision NOT to go for it, and to down climb and back clean as I went. Surprisingly tiring day for just 4 pitches of climbing.  I'm getting old!

Idaho Bob wrote:

Agree Nick.  Always pays to look at family history when choosing your parents, LOL.  But seriously,  the female side of the family has a pretty good correlation to longevity based on my limited observations.  Male side, not so much.  

Not necessarily saying this applies to your family but males have a tendency to do a lot more stupid shit than females that contributes to dying young. 

Daniel Shively wrote:

Oh man, I think I met Bill early 2000’s around Tuolumne. Maybe a bit before he started working at the TPR. What a great man, climbing partner, and conversationalist. We’ve kind of lost touch, but I’d love to run into him again. If you still see him regularly, please tell him that Denise and I think of him and would be psyched to re connect if he’s ever around the eastside. Cool photo, and yeah, the headband is always present when rock climbing. 

Bill Lundeen, on the route “Bush the Imbecile”, Tranquility Wall, Wheeler Crest, California.

I’ve seen him post here (not recently) so I hopes that he might lurk and maybe these photos will pull him out of the shadows.

Cheers!

The shadows have released their grip--for now. Are these posts a memorial for some dead climber? Makes me remember when my dad was mayor and police chief in the small town I grew up in and they named a town park after him. He joked about how these things are supposed to happen after you're dead... Two weeks later he died of an aortic aneurism. 

Hey, I miss you guys!  I miss the climbing life more than I can ever say. Three years now of not being on the rock and in the amazing places where climbing take place.  Thanks for the great pictures, Dan. Fondly remembering Smokestack on the Rabbit Ears. And yeah, Brad, 17 of my 32 trips to JT were with you. Amazing trips, amazing years for sure. Thanks for calling my attention, Terry, to this post. Miss climbing with you and Helga in the Meadows and appreciate our real time interactions trying to ride out the most recent political storms.

Once a climber, always a climber I guess. Haven't found anything close to take its place. Yet. Still hoping and searching... Climb on

Dude, I always said that diet and exercise are critical but genetics are still the boss.  I spent a 3rd of my life as a martial arts practitioner student and teacher. I have thousands of examples of students over the years that were genetically gifted and those of us who were not.  Countless times I have seen people with a great work ethic who were conscious of their diet out work naturally gifted people yet never achieve the success and physique of the guy who is gifted but mails it in..  Think Laurece Taylor. skips practice, Stays up all night drinking booze and snorting coke, arrives late on game day and then gets 4 1/2 sacks. Thousands of guys worked harder and kept their bodies clean yet never had a chance to even get on the team...  Most of these gifted people would have been even better and lived even longer had they taken care of themselves.  I bet if Kief Richards was a vegetarian who never smoked, drank or did drugs that guy would probably live to 125...  Any normal person who abused themselves as hard as Kief would have been seriously dead decades ago... 

Daniel Shively wrote:

Wow! Thanks! I’d love to chat and climb with Bill again. He was a mentor to me and guided me through some metaphysical exploration. I could definitely use some of his perspective and wisdom. 

“A Lundeen Way of Knowledge”

Oh man, Hey Bill!, I just saw your post upthread.So cool you jumped in here! I’d love to see you and climb if possible. My phone number is still the same if you have it. I’m happy that I posted your photo and saw that you‘re still out there! Cheers!

Hey Dan … So good to touch base a little. Charlotte and I live in Fort Bragg now, up on the north coast. No climbing for me anymore; serious upper cervical issue that probably happened in that avalanche in 2006. I’d love to see you and Denise if I get back to the Eastern Sierra. Take care! Miss our visits…

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Dude, I always said that diet and exercise are critical but genetics are still the boss.  I spent a 3rd of my life as a martial arts practitioner student and teacher. I have thousands of examples of students over the years that were genetically gifted and those of us who were not.  Countless times I have seen people with a great work ethic who were conscious of their diet out work naturally gifted people yet never achieve the success and physique of the guy who is gifted but mails it in..  Think Laurece Taylor. skips practice, Stays up all night drinking booze and snorting coke, arrives late on game day and then gets 4 1/2 sacks. Thousands of guys worked harder and kept their bodies clean yet never had a chance to even get on the team...  Most of these gifted people would have been even better and lived even longer had they taken care of themselves.  I bet if Kief Richards was a vegetarian who never smoked, drank or did drugs that guy would probably live to 125...  Any normal person who abused themselves as hard as Kief would have been seriously dead decades ago... 

Yup. Most humans can become competent at any given athletic pursuit by putting in enough effort. Becoming elite requires genetics suited to the sport. It's why pro baseball players have average eyesight of 20/12, or 1 in 7 men over 7 feet tall in the US have played in the NBA but Mugsy Bogues is the only one under 5'6" who managed it.