New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

You know, back in my day, we didn’t have macros or microbiomes or apps that told us how many almonds we were allowed to eat. We just had food. You woke up, you poured yourself a bowl of cereal — none of this “overnight oats soaked in organic cashew milk” nonsense — and you went to work. If you were lucky, your mom tossed a bologna sandwich and an apple in a brown paper bag. No one ever asked if the bread was “whole grain ancient sprouted heirloom rye.” It was just bread. And we were fine!

Now every time I go online, someone’s trying to convince me that sugar is the devil, carbs are poison, and coffee will both kill and save you depending on the phase of the moon. People are drinking butter in their coffee — butter! — and pretending it’s “biohacking.” In my day, if you put butter in your coffee, someone would assume you’d lost your mind or mistaken it for toast.

And don’t even get me started on kale. Kale used to be a garnish, for crying out loud — that bitter, scratchy leaf you pushed aside on your plate at Sizzler. Now it’s the main event, massaged like it’s going through therapy. I saw a recipe online for “kale chips.” Buddy, if I want chips, I’ll eat chips.

Everyone’s got a “gut health journey” now. We didn’t have gut journeys — we had Tums. You ate too much sausage, you took a couple, you moved on with your life. Nobody felt the need to write a blog post about it.

And of course, every kid these days has an allergy or a sensitivity. I’m not saying people didn’t have problems back then, but we didn’t have entire grocery aisles dedicated to things food doesn’t contain. Gluten-free, dairy-free, sugar-free, joy-free. I’m half expecting to see “oxygen-free” cookies any day now.

I saw someone on TikTok the other day saying we should eat like our ancestors — you know, caveman diets and all that. Well, guess what: our ancestors also didn’t have indoor plumbing or antibiotics, and I don’t see anyone volunteering to give those up.

Give me a turkey sandwich on white bread, a bag of chips, and a cold soda, and I’ll show you someone who’s lived a happy, well-fed life. The secret to good nutrition isn’t some influencer’s “clean eating” plan — it’s called moderation. You don’t need to count your macros. Just eat your sandwich and go trad climbing once in a while.

Haha, word up Alex!

+1

Tad

Greg Opland wrote:

Fun little solo.  Way easier to find a slot to do that than to get a party on it.

My question for Alex is how old are you and how active and healthy are you now. There is no doubt that we are what we eat. The most important factor in longevity is genetics but either way if you eat Total crap it won't help and if you eat really healthy it will help.

Archie Bunker has entered the house I see.

M M wrote:

Archie Bunker has entered the house I see.

By today's 'standards', Archie Bunker is a 'commie liberal'!!!!

Alex +2

Daniel Shively wrote:

Oh man, I think I met Bill early 2000’s around Tuolumne. Maybe a bit before he started working at the TPR. What a great man, climbing partner, and conversationalist. We’ve kind of lost touch, but I’d love to run into him again. If you still see him regularly, please tell him that Denise and I think of him and would be psyched to re connect if he’s ever around the eastside. Cool photo, and yeah, the headband is always present when rock climbing. 

Bill Lundeen, on the route “Bush the Imbecile”, Tranquility Wall, Wheeler Crest, California.

I’ve seen him post here (not recently) so I hopes that he might lurk and maybe these photos will pull him out of the shadows.

Cheers!

Small world indeed! I just emailed Bill about this discussion. He is a fantastic human and a great friend.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

My question for Alex is how old are you and how active and healthy are you now. There is no doubt that we are what we eat. The most important factor in longevity is genetics but either way if you eat Total crap it won't help and if you eat really healthy it will help.

Genetics plays a minor role in longevity, for most people at least. Maybe 20-30%. Only at the extreme, for those who live to 100+, there are a few super aging genes. But those are rare.

Exercise, diet, sleep, substance use, social connections, and stress are the modifiable factors involved in healthy aging. While there are no guarantees, if you do everything “right”, you may add up to a decade or two to your life, and decrease suffering in the end.

None of the stuff advocated by credible longevity science involves huge sacrifice, imo. I’m not talking about “biohacks”, artisanal bread, or butter in your coffee, but a few less bologna sandwiches may help.

Perma you are dead fucking wrong. Genetics is massive. Healthy living helps tremendously but genetics is King.  Richard Simmons is dead as fucking doornail and Kieth Richards is still rocking.. is what it is

A couple of more views of Pingora

View from our campsite.  Team Mythos meets at the top of Pingora

Two classics at the City.  Skyline and Lost Arrow

Any climbers on this thread live in Western North Carolina?  Moved here (Asheville area) a few years ago, went through some health issues (all good now) and ready to get back on the rock.  69 y/o, 25 years of climbing.  Would love to connect with some other old farts who climb for the sheer enjoyment, not the grades (since I'm a 5.easy kind of guy at the moment).

1. Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Perma you are dead fucking wrong. Genetics is massive. Healthy living helps tremendously but genetics is King.  Richard Simmons is dead as fucking doornail and Kieth Richards is still rocking.. is what it is

And Jeanne Calment, the oldest person who ever graced the planet, smoked until she was 117!

Anecdotes aside, the 20-30% genetic contribution to longevity isn’t my stat.

But even if you think the scientists who study aging are wrong, you must believe behavior has some influence on how long you’ll live, no? If so, how much would you be willing to alter your habits to live another 5, 10, 15 years?

Permabeta wrote:

Agree Nick.  Always pays to look at family history when choosing your parents, LOL.  But seriously,  the female side of the family has a pretty good correlation to longevity based on my limited observations.  Male side, not so much.  

You just never know.

One of my grandfathers started smoking and drinking in his mid teens, meat n tater diet, 50 lbs. overweight and died in his sleep 2 weeks short of his 100th birthday. 

My other grandfather never smoked or drank alcohol, same diet, not overweight and died of a heart attack age 65.

Go figure, YMMV

Carry on...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8836117/

Here’s a good review detailing the different genes that have been implicated in longevity. These authors attribute 40% of lifespan to genetics. That would make genetics the largest individual contributor to lifespan since none of the other factors - smoking, alcohol and drug use, nutrition, exercise, other lifestyle (marital status, meditation, stress, laughter, etc), socio- economic status, environmental pollution, career, etc - individually count for 40%. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

...

Dragons, you are a 'hard woman' climbing today. I was just driving by the Gunks this afternoon and the chilly wind was very noticeable--and provided no incentive to detour to do a route!!!

Not exactly a hard woman, since I followed everything - with difficulty! Here I am on Layback, an incredibly hard 5.5, with its chimney followed by a difficult traverse.
I wore my winter jacket the entire time. It was a raw day, indeed.

AI tells us:

The "nature versus nurture" debate explores the long-standing question of whether human traits and behaviors are shaped more by genetics ("nature") or by environment and experiences ("nurture"). While early views often favored one side, modern science recognizes that both factors are deeply intertwined and constantly interact. Genetics provide a predisposition, but environmental factors can influence how those genes are expressed, making it a complex interplay of both forces.

The " complex interplay" is sometimes known as epigenetics:

Epigenetics is the study of how behaviors and environment can cause changes that affect the way genes work without altering the underlying DNA sequence. These changes, which can be passed down through cell divisions or even generations, turn genes "on" or "off" and can be influenced by factors like diet, stress, and toxins. For example, epigenetic modifications can make it easier or harder for cells to read a gene's instructions, influencing everything from development to disease risk. 

BTW ,Jeanne Calment, the French Lady referenced above, most likely did not regularly smoke. She would often do so when journalist would come around on the occasion of her birthday , and knowing she could be encouraged to talk, would offer her a cigarette or two and then take a photo of her puffing away. Calment lived in Arles, France and remembers as a little girl selling Van Gogh colored pencils at her parents market stall. She lived from 1875 until 1997.

phylp phylp wrote:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8836117/

Here’s a good review detailing the different genes that have been implicated in longevity. These authors attribute 40% of lifespan to genetics. That would make genetics the largest individual contributor to lifespan since none of the other factors - smoking, alcohol and drug use, nutrition, exercise, other lifestyle (marital status, meditation, stress, laughter, etc), socio- economic status, environmental pollution, career, etc - individually count for 40%. 

That’s higher than I’ve seen quoted, but regardless, the majority isn’t in the genes.*

That’s great news, because it means we can actually do something to influence our life- and healthspans.

*Also, that number appears to be the upper limit of what is potentially heritable. From your article:

“Longevity of human life is heritable from 20% to 40% in the modern human populations“

I got my Ph.D from the Biochemistry Department at BU Med School. The research of almost the whole Department was focused on aging, as the Chairman was one of the world experts in the Biochemistry of aging.  My first lab rotation involved studying changes in histone acetylation in aging rats. (Histones are one of the components of chromatin, which is what the complex of DNA and its associated proteins in the nucleus is called.) Wistar rats continue to grow in size as the age and I can tell you, the process having to euthanize a very large squirming heavy radioactive rat is pretty gruesome. Other people in the department studied the aging of connective tissue, mostly collagen and elastin, which I have written about here before.

This is my contribution of the day, since I didn't take any photos of climbing in Pine Creek and the Gorge on my recent trip.  I wanted to climb at the Gong show area in Rock Creek, but the very big log that has been used for years to get over the creek seems to have snapped in half, and I felt too unsteady with the weight of the pack containing the full trad rack and draws and the massive amount of fluid I need to drink in a day out to get across the steps across now needed.  The narrow log is still there but I would have had to butt scoot over that one and it seemed too tedious. I really really want someone to develop the app which is the equivalent of Uber but for porters.

I got to do 4 new to me routes up in the area near Main Line, which have been on my list for a while, and backed off one that had a easy enough grade but was awkward and kind of strenuous and insecure near the bottom with a potential fall onto a sloping ledge if that piece had pulled. Made the snap decision NOT to go for it, and to down climb and back clean as I went. Surprisingly tiring day for just 4 pitches of climbing.  I'm getting old!