New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

50 is pretty darn young in my book. Not if you fucked up and wrecked yourself with booze and cigarettes... Those guys look ancient at 40...

T Hocking wrote:

When I started climbing in 1972 I  never had to buy chalk. My father was a high school PE teacher and coach. After the gymnastics classes and season ended he'd bring me home the broken blocks and pieces from school that he'd usually throw out.

Nice!

Being thrifty and tight on cash, I  had mom sew me one up from a leg portion of a worn out and cutoff pair of Levi's jeans. It had a paracord drawstring that I'd clip to my swami belt.

It seems as if gym climbing has become popular amongst software developers.

What I seen is anything but thriftiness these days. Specialised climbing gym clothing that costs more than a parka, $300 custom shoes, 80m 8.8mm dry ropes with 15-20m walls to climb, etc.  Pretty lavish… 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

50 is pretty darn young in my book. Not if you fucked up and wrecked yourself with booze and cigarettes... Those guys look ancient at 40...

Your pictures make you look 50, young man!   

John Gill wrote:

 Trad climbers may be aghast at such foolery, but what you are attempting is what I had in mind 71 years ago - a more athletic approach to climbing.   

Rest assured it is not the trad climber in me that is aghast, rather it is the senior citizen with many injuries under his belt who is trying to hang on to what little connective tissue he has, so he can milk this climbing thing for as long as he can that is saying wtf. 

Solid static jamming technique is going to take me much further than being able to stick a long shot sideways dyno, and though I could be wrong I think the same is true for any climber, not just seniors. Otherwise, how could it be that I have lost track of how many times have I hung back and laughed at one of these  talented youngsters with their grasp of this “more athletic approach to climbing” that you speak of, as they lieback, then fall off, and then call sandbag on the 5.10 crack that I just led for them. Granted, I am not saying this is anyone involved in this conversation, it is just a reality that I frequently see. 

Fortunately for my young friends they have youth and strength on their side so any of them that stick with the program eventually get better, some even surpassing the master, since their curve is upward and mine the reverse.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

50 is pretty darn young in my book. Not if you fucked up and wrecked yourself with booze and cigarettes... Those guys look ancient at 40...

What do you mean? Here I am going for a bike ride at 50...

Looking pretty spry if I do say so myself.

Emil Briggs wrote:

Starting a Tricam fight is a good way to liven up your day. Note I neither endorse nor reject the views expressed in the following video!

How to place tricams

 For some placements tri-cams are very effective.  Remember pink don't stink (talking about tri-cams).

Idaho Bob wrote:

 For some placements tri-cams are very effective.  Remember pink don't stink (talking about tri-cams).

Before the proliferation of bolted (convenience) anchors at the Gunks, tri-cams were pretty handy to build belays, thereby saving cams for the actual leading. They're still always in my pack at the Gunks and I'll bring them up on occasion, depending on the climb (and mostly whether or not the powers that be have installed bolted anchors).

T

(Guy) "Now that dynamic moves are relatively common today. What do you think about it? "

(Alan) "it was John, with his background in gymnastics, who introduced the use of chalk into climbing--in the late '50s/early '60s and Rich, as one of his 'disciples', who 'spread the word"

Guy, I envisioned a kind of controlled momentum and graceful movement that one sees now, probably more often in the gym than on the rock. I did not consider monkey shenanigans part of the sport. The idea was to navigate a section of rock gracefully and with minimum contact with the rock. Crack and chimney challenges I thought of as more like caving than climbing, as contact with the rock is maximized. Keep in mind I was considered weird. I am delighted when I see smooth dynamics.

Alan, I started using chalk during the fall of 1954, taking a small block with me on midnight buildering on the Tech campus and at Stone Mountain and Cloudland Canyon. Then, the summers of 1956, 57, and 58 I took chalk to the Tetons and demonstrated its efficacy at the Jenny Lake boulders and up higher in the Park. Those days the Tetons attracted climbers from all over the globe, and the use of chalk spread accordingly. During 1958-59 I visited Devils Lake several times, bringing chalk into the game there. Rich and Pat Ament were early proponents of its use. 

 

Here is Rearick chalked up on Cutfinger Rock at Jenny Lake ca1960.

 1954--you started using chalk much earlier than I realized. I assume that you were already involved in gymnastics by then and adapted chalk use from that experience?
I can say that when I started in 1963, and for a while after, at least where I climbed ( at Devil's Lake, and to some degree at the Gunks), the climbing 'establishment'--at least as represented by the leadership of the climbing clubs, was quite hostile to chalk use, and people such as Rich and his peers were considered to be bad examples ( I was directly told this by one of the club leaders at Wisconsin, who dismissed them as 'acrobats'---I'm sure you would consider that appellation to be a compliment!!!!). Fortunately I didn't listen to them and became another 'bad example.'

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

50 is pretty darn young in my book. Not if you fucked up and wrecked yourself with booze and cigarettes... Those guys look ancient at 40...

If I didn't care about being active I'd definitely wreck myself on booze weed and cigarettes, its the next best option and  better than prayer, TV and diabetes.

fossil wrote:

Rest assured it is not the trad climber in me that is aghast, rather it is the senior citizen with many injuries under his belt who is trying to hang on to what little connective tissue he has, so he can milk this climbing thing for as long as he can that is saying wtf. 

Solid static jamming technique is going to take me much further than being able to stick a long shot sideways dyno, and though I could be wrong I think the same is true for any climber, not just seniors. Otherwise, how could it be that I have lost track of how many times have I hung back and laughed at one of these  talented youngsters with their grasp of this “more athletic approach to climbing” that you speak of, as they lieback, then fall off, and then call sandbag on the 5.10 crack that I just led for them. Granted, I am not saying this is anyone involved in this conversation, it is just a reality that I frequently see. 

Fortunately for my young friends they have youth and strength on their side so any of them that stick with the program eventually get better, some even surpassing the master, since their curve is upward and mine the reverse.

I'd be jamming up cracks all the time if I could,  around here I gotta take what I got. I  know one thing, my footwork is 100x better now than when I  was young and super strong, I  go back to climbs from the past and do them completely different now. I think if I had to pick any style(s) to have to climb as an old guy regularly it would be pure crack or overhanging jug hauls like Maple Canyon.  I have neither here so just being careful is all I  got.

Chalk lovers unite! Good stories here on that subject 

For the Gunks enthusiasts, prepare yourselves...

Al Demaria leading with pins and hammer on Twin Oaks or Triple Bulges  photo by?

Wiessner on Madame Grunnenburg Wulst photo by?

Wiessner on Never Never Land wearing his K2 slippers as rgold describes them (photo by rgold)

Retribution photo by Geno

Henry Barber on True Grip

Jimmy Surette on Swing Time

John Stannard on Foops

Kevin Bien on Open Cockpit photo by Bob D'antonio

Mike Freeman on No Exit photo by Geno

Rich Goldstone on Annie O photo by?

Rich Ross on Red Tape photo by Harvey Arnold

Spaff Ackerly on Coexistance photo by Rich Perch

Rosie Andrews on Fissure Ramin photo by Geno

The Dangler a strenuous finish to three Pines photo by?

John Meyers on Persistent photo by Rosie Andrews

 Claude Suhl pens his take on The Vulgarians

 "The Vulgarians, even prior to naming ourselves in New York street gang fashion [ name supplied by Jack Hansen - now deceased who brought Dick Williams up to the Gun first in 1957 and drove a Triumph and moved to California in the late 60's] the vulgarians were ULTRA-ALL-INCLUSIVE !!! our stated and enacted mission was to provide a safe haven for all and any Fraternity(or Sorority) rejects in particular- although one could also be welcome if one had such affiliations [for example successful lawyer McCarthy of Princeton - but McCarthy publicly rejected membership in a Princeton eating club because a good friend of his who was Jewish was denied membership. Apparently at Princeton these "eating clubs" - I believe that is what they were called - were much more important than frats at other schools because if you didn't belong you had to cook your own food on a candle lantern in your dorm I guess] had nerdiest geeks like Bill Goldner from RPI and Yonkers, charismatic local natural baseball athlete descended from the former producer of the Hudson Valley's best apple Dave Craft, local Gardiner lady Lynn Tosti , many visitors from Britain-Mike and Judy Yeats, Nick Pott,....- we had grade school dropouts - a person who earned his PhD in math from MIT before he was 21 [Jim Geiser]- future multi-millionaires and guy who skied with Jean-Claude Killy and sold a bikini to Joan Baez' sister from his North Face store in north Beach, CA- Doug Tompkins, too many eternal dirt bags to count - many veterans of scarfing food from the Yosemite Lodge cafeteria as a way of life and sustenance- Army veterans like Ralph Worsfold West Point grad Army drop-outs like Garry Garret- communist sympathizers, civil rights activists, anti-Vietnam war protesters who after burning all their draft cards tried to lead a brigade to burn down a draft board, an arch traditional conservative who was an MIT Civil Engineer then Lawyer-Bill Ryan( although he originally was a very curious anti-Vulgarian - we co-opted him eventually I think he would confess) ................................... to earn membership one merely had to be able to survive in the environment - if you kept coming back, why you were still there-thus you were one of us the Vulgarians were and still are Egalitarians [i hope] - egalitarians with dirt bag roots [or dirt bag wannabe rub off patina] and a grubby grumpy edge who had a lot of fun and have made a commitment to keep it up, eh? [perhaps some having had occasional lapses into seriousity and conformity] why , Vulgarians pioneered stone UN-washed jeans with holes in the ass and knees way before Ralph Lauren was born Vulgarians prowled the lower east side streets in big puffy orange down jackets beneath the towering walls of the steaming, huffing and puffing ConEdison powerplant on 14th street before Vulgarian protégé Doug Tompkins pioneered the North Face and now wealthy ghetto chic -lettes board the subways in their prominently North Face labelled down accoutrements. some - like Bill Goldner and much later Don Whillans - tried to extend the Ultra-All -Inclusive aspect to cadging FREE drinks. At the recent dinner at the Mountain Brauhau Joe Kelsey at our table was having a little problem with the check, because of some mix up about that Mark Robinson had paid for him but from another table -Joe Earne stated that "hey, I'll just pay for it again - I don't want to be a Bill Goldner" - it all worked out fine BUT note the Goldner reference - Goldner's fame survives - he has a bill paying avoidance mechanism named after him with people still using this appellation to describe such behavior to this day. Now Whillans is a whole other order of magnitude - he liked to be a bar fighter- he would face people down and gruffly insist they buy him beers - BUT Dave Craft - master of corrective coercion- stood Whillans down - [so did Gerd Thuestad, while naked, about some wool socks - but you will have to ask Burt about that story] anyway Whillans had to buy his share of beer - at least when Craft was around. Quite frequently besides night gatherings there were collective engagements at the base of climbs - lots of harrassment was manifested at times - whereby as someone was leading - particularly if they were starting to have trouble - those on the ground might start chanting and beating their piton hammers on the rocks in unison - it was frequently not a very quiet time. But there was also often a rope of two or three going off to just do a climb but , as you mentioned recently, there was always a huge gathering at the Uberfall to come back to. 

Al D is on either Twin Oaks or Triple Bulges.  The amount of lichen BITD is notable.  It's all gone now.

The "strenuous finish to Three Pines" is called the Dangler. 

Fritz, then in his seventies, is climbing Never Never Land (10a) in mountain boots.

The climber on Persistent is Rich Romano.

Dunno who took the Coex picture--it wasn't me.

fossil wrote:

Rest assured it is not the trad climber in me that is aghast, rather it is the senior citizen with many injuries under his belt who is trying to hang on to what little connective tissue he has, so he can milk this climbing thing for as long as he can that is saying wtf. 

Solid static jamming technique is going to take me much further than being able to stick a long shot sideways dyno, and though I could be wrong I think the same is true for any climber, not just seniors. Otherwise, how could it be that I have lost track of how many times have I hung back and laughed at one of these  talented youngsters with their grasp of this “more athletic approach to climbing” that you speak of, as they lieback, then fall off, and then call sandbag on the 5.10 crack that I just led for them. Granted, I am not saying this is anyone involved in this conversation, it is just a reality that I frequently see. 

Fortunately for my young friends they have youth and strength on their side so any of them that stick with the program eventually get better, some even surpassing the master, since their curve is upward and mine the reverse.

You are correct. Mostly its in the formal bouldering comps you see the graceful performances - a world different from trad climbing. Parkour has blended well with upper body dynamics. 

When I started I saw male gymnasts perform moves like lowering from a handstand on the rings to an inverted cross. In the climbing world I saw guys challenging one another in pushups. I realized climbers could become much stronger. 

I said I was weird. Another dimension of my deviation from mainstream, and one I rarely discussed with fellow climbers, was my fascination with what I saw as the ultimate form of rock climbing, what now might be called free solo exploration. I did not realize I was following along a path tread by Preuss and Winkler. I was curious to find my limitations. After a number of solitary rambles in the Tetons, the Needles and elsewhere I found my limits, and from then on continued the practice but turned down the dial of difficulty, until an incident of a shaking block, high up in the air, at the end of the twentieth century. I did much more of this than bouldering - it was an entirely separate discipline.  

fossil wrote:

For the Gunks enthusiasts, prepare yourselves...

 Claude Suhl pens his take on The Vulgarians

 "The Vulgarians, even prior to naming ourselves in New York street gang fashion...

fossil, thanks for the pics, and for the Proustian reminiscences of Claude Suhl!

Yesterday, I took a walk past Easy Keyhole. I felt I had something to prove after asserting to Buck that I could lead P1. I haven't led that in a while. So I scoped it out real good, took a bunch of pics.

Today I led P1. There's a kind of pinch feature in the crack, down low where the route starts.
You can get pro just below the pinch.
Start the climb by slotting your foot in the crack.
Then I used a fist jam above it to help me get off the ground and establish a stem off the big pillar to the left. It's a pretty wide stem. I'm short. But even so, it's doable.
Above that is off-width territory, I believe. But you can avoid any off-width technique by stemming off the pillar/flake to the right, and grabbing good features on that. I slammed an old #4 C4 in the top of the off-width, but it was a tight fit. Possibly a #3 would be a better fit. We don't usually carry a #4, and it would be nice to know it's not necessary on this route.
The rest is pretty easy, but I had more trouble at the roof up top, where I went left to the chains, instead of going right like Buck did.
I recall the roof being very fun and easy in the past. It felt super hard getting out from under it on lead today.  
Whole thing took me an hour. Bill followed it in about 5 minutes.

So my new project is to lead this in 15/20 minutes (Lori, I've got a project!). I think I have good beta for my next attempt.
I feel it's nice to have a few routes that are so hard-wired you can do them practically without thinking, when you don't have a lot of time, but want to get out. For me, those routes are Betty and Rusty Trifle.
Maybe Easy Keyhole will make it onto this list.
But I just think this is not a 5.2. It's at least a 5.4.

The reward is in the doing, but I found it mentally exhausting. We stopped for a recovery treat at Gardiner Bakehouse before heading home!

Whelp, you all got me hooked now.

Going to make it a point to get up Easy Keyhole next time we are up there, probably the weekend after this one.

+1 for the keyhole club.   

You guys got me with all your Easy Keyhole talk so I consulted my old guidebook.  Apparently I lead it in the Spring of 1979 , so I guess that I am in the Keyhole Club, but I have absolutely no memory of it!  Usually I can remember pretty much every route that I have done.

Ward, You are officially getting old ;)  You have the red book? I drilled a hole in mine and put a red shoelace through it so I could clip the guide book to my harness. also had sneakers to clip to my harness for the hike back down. 

Tom R wrote:

Whelp, you all got me hooked now.

Going to make it a point to get up Easy Keyhole next time we are up there, probably the weekend after this one.

+1 for the keyhole club.   

Well done Dragons! I knew that you'd led it in the past! Bill has the patience of a Saint! ;).  I also did a left foot jam into the crack and hand jammed above but it sure was awkward. I agree it's about a gunks .4 moved through there. When we do it, we'll need to head right as the top two pitches are really quite good!

Tom! Would that be Labor Day weekend? If so, I'm hoping to be there that Friday and at least one other day over the weekend! We should all meet up!

And make no mistake, Easy Keyhole is NOT worth the drive just for itself (don't want to oversell it!!!) but it sure is memorable! 

Ward Smith wrote:

You guys got me with all your Easy Keyhole talk so I consulted my old guidebook.  Apparently I lead it in the Spring of 1979 , so I guess that I am in the Keyhole Club, but I have absolutely no memory of it!  Usually I can remember pretty much every route that I have done.

There is a check in my book as well and I  also have no memory of even the name of it. I'll always remember the day I came up on some naked folks on one of those classics(shockleys),  I  happened to know the girl who was following and it was an all around awkward experience. I was kindly asked to make my own belay!