New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

I have seen the word Tachycardia in the past 2 posts.

Jean and I climbed Tachycardia in Maple Canyon a long time ago before they finally decided to move the upper pitch rappel station. We spent about 35 minutes looking for the rap station on the summit. We could not locate it. We were baking in the sun. I finally got feed up an belayed Jean as she down climbed and clipped the bolts along the way to the next rap station. It was not fun  unclipping the draws and down climbing the route. 

The hardest part was trying to get across the crux to the belay station. I had to leave a quick draw since I did not want to disturb the hornets by the draw. The last time that I got stung by a yellow jacket in my face, I swelled up so much that I had to get steroids. Jean said that I looked like an avatar. 

By the way, the actual climb was great. The crux was similar to the Gunks as you had a overhang and a traverse together.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/107669530/tachycardia

John

I've never had great aerobic function what with being about 99% fast twitch muscle.  So for me, when huffing up hill behind the likes of Kris and Guy I would be pretty much redlined while they were strolling.  I would basically go until I started seeing a big white spot in my vision and then I knew I had hit my aerobic capacify (and then some).  I assume I was lucky not to kill myself hiking this way.

its been warm and sunny the last two days. Ski tour with Isa and Bernie the wonder dog yesterday. 

found some safe ice

the start was a bit alpine. I suspect I would have hiked it with two Nomics but I was taking my old Chounard for a walk. 

I climbed about a 3rd of the way up and then downclimbed and Shwacked around on the P1 bypass

the old leashes really are a PINTA and the fat picks displace a lot of ice which is not gud when there is not much ice..  I think I am finally done climbing with old Blue. its just a lot of unnecessary work. 

the rest of the climb was Phat, wet and easy.  

nice view

the Parasol was big this year

fired up the sauna. the water is still plenty cold but what a difference a few days makes with the snowpack and wintery feel.. 

Li Hu wrote:

For most, not good. AI: “Ventricular Tachycardia:: A heart rate of 170 bpm or higher can be a sign of ventricular tachycardia, a condition where the ventricles of the heart beat too fast. If you experience such a high heart rate, it's important to seek medical attention.”

I would get another doctor if he didn’t really know? … but 176 at 70 plus years would be pretty spectacular.

My last laboratory VO2max test was about 12 years ago in my early 50s. I had been measured way back when I was still wrestling competitively and was curious how it had changed over the years. The result was 54.6 and my heart rate maxed out at 194. That's normal range for someone in their 20s and very fit older people can hit that without it being an indication of tachycardia. But yes it your not really fit it can be a bad sign.

Had kind of the opposite of Nick’s day. Did 17 miles of The Grand Enchantment Trail, through desert with temperatures in the mid 70s. Nice though in that the 26 mile, two day section we finished yesterday, included dark, cloudy conditions, and getting pounded by rain at the end of Friday and overnight Friday/Saturday.

Ah, the desert. 

Brad Young wrote:

Had kind of the opposite of Nick’s day. Did 17 miles of The Grand Enchantment Trail, through desert with temperatures in the mid 70s. Nice though in that the 26 mile, two day section we finished yesterday, included dark, cloudy conditions, and getting pounded by rain at the end of Friday and overnight Friday/Saturday.

Ah, the desert. 

Being from Vermont and never really having traveled in the western USA outside of OR/WA state I still remember the extreme awe, and almost magical feeling that I had when I first drove into Moab around 3 years ago.

It was a weird, deeply moving experience and it just took my breath away.

I'm not a very "spiritual" person but that was truly a "moment" in my life.

There is something about the desert towers in Utah that just takes my breath away.

And climbing them is another whole level.

I usually do "trip reports" about these types of long hikes (I've done them too regarding the forty-plus trips my daughters and I have done walking the Pacific Crest Trail).

These reports are mostly photos, with enough words for context. I do them on the Pinnacles climbers forum, Mudn'Crud, where the photos display full size and where many of my friends can see them. My Mom likes them too.

Here are some desert-trip photos from the February, 2023 trip:

http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=3067.0 

From February, 2024:

http://www.mudncrud.com/forums/index.php?topic=3097.0 

Jan Mc wrote:

I've never had great aerobic function what with being about 99% fast twitch muscle.  So for me, when huffing up hill behind the likes of Kris and Guy I would be pretty much redlined while they were strolling.  I would basically go until I started seeing a big white spot in my vision and then I knew I had hit my aerobic capacify (and then some).  I assume I was lucky not to kill myself hiking this way.

Same, though my VO2 is good, my efficiency is horrific. End up being the same thing.

My brain hops itself into “low power mode” at altitude   

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

... I was taking my old Chounard for a walk. 

Looks like a nice Zero-X with a classic pick.  Still have mine.  Sweet.

Emil Briggs wrote:

My last laboratory VO2max test was about 12 years ago in my early 50s. I had been measured way back when I was still wrestling competitively and was curious how it had changed over the years. The result was 54.6 and my heart rate maxed out at 194. That's normal range for someone in their 20s and very fit older people can hit that without it being an indication of tachycardia. But yes it your not really fit it can be a bad sign.

54.6 is fantastic even for a 20 year old! I’d say you are extremely fit!

My heart rate now peaks at 168, but my resting rate is around 40 and BP 136/81. In my youth, under 30 bpm. My BP is high, I need to continue to trim my weight. But under 30bpm would also be symptomatic of something bad, I’m sure, but I was healthy as far as I knew?

If I continue to push it past 168, I end up seeing that white spot Jan was talking about.

Li Hu wrote:

54.6 is fantastic even for a 20 year old! I’d say you are extremely fit!

My heart rate now peaks at 168, but my resting rate is around 40 and BP 136/81. In my youth, under 30 bpm. My BP is high, I need to continue to trim my weight. But under 30bpm would also be symptomatic of something bad, I’m sure, but I was healthy as far as I knew?

If I continue to push it past 168, I end up seeing that white spot Jan was talking about.

Back in my competition days I measured in the low 70s. If you saw my earlier post about the accuracy of VO2 max calculators that would translate to roughly a 4:10 mile but the best I ever ran was 4:55. But I'm a poster child for bad running form since I have duck feet and my efficiency is terrible. I think for some subset of the population the calculators are pretty good but if you look at elite runners there is a good deal of variation in VO2 max even for people with very similar running performance which is just differences in efficiency. As for RHR under 30 would trigger alarms in most cases. Under 40 seems to be fairly common for endurance athletes but under 30 is pretty rare.

This has been another conversation that has helped me a lot, personally. Thank you!  So many of you have a long history of athletic performance, and nosing around here in Joshua Tree witnessing what came before, it's impressive the physical/mental feats that created some of these classic routes.  When I see what people are STILL up to, it sure draws a distinction between natural aptitude (although developed over time) and effortless physical health, and some of us (me) who have had to drag out onto that rock and pray.    

Sometimes I feel as though I'm up against a hopeless brick wall.  Today is one of those days.  All I really want is to squeeze a few more months or years of playing outside... a few more vertical feet before it's over.  But I'm always just a breath away from exhaustion and/or illness.  Trying to figure it out--what's laying me out today?... is it diabetes, blood sugar high or low, chronic Lyme or Epstein Barr that just rears up out of nowhere?  Or is it just being 'old'.  Maybe that 4 hour hike yesterday.  Or not enough protein/hydration?  Is there ANYTHING I can do about it?

What I love is that so many of you can be so carefree.  But I also understand why things like VO2Max, RHR, protein, hours of sleep, are just so much academic boredom.  I try not to get too focused on metrics, just enough information to know when something goes way off.  (My Whoop registered heartbeat over 100 for almost a week when I was recently sick, and a "Strain" score as though I had been climbing hard.) 

It also helps me gain some understanding of the basic fact that 'we are different'... flex some empathy.  Tony is a guy who simply won't break. I've been wanting to treat him like a China Doll, but really he doesn't need it.  He has lived fearless, and busted nearly everything in his body one way or another.  But he's constitutionally bullet proof, as many of you are.  I am not. 

Good lessons here.  Thank you. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Sometimes I feel as though I'm up against a hopeless brick wall.  Today is one of those days.  All I really want is to squeeze a few more months or years of playing outside... a few more vertical feet before it's over.  But I'm always just a breath away from exhaustion and/or illness.  Trying to figure it out--what's laying me out today?... is it diabetes, blood sugar high or low, chronic Lyme or Epstein Barr that just rears up out of nowhere?  Or is it just being 'old'.  Maybe that 4 hour hike yesterday.  Or not enough protein/hydration?  Is there ANYTHING I can do about it?

If you feel relaxed, it’ll help you climb better and for a lot longer.

Most people get frightened, clench up and start to breathe harder from over/exerting themselves.

What I love is that so many of you can be so carefree.  But I also understand why things like VO2Max, RHR, protein, hours of sleep, are just so much academic boredom.  I try not to get too focused on metrics, just enough information to know when something goes way off.  (My Whoop registered heartbeat over 100 for almost a week when I was recently sick, and a "Strain" score as though I had been climbing hard.) 

It’s exercise, not having to “prove oneself” takes a lot of the pressure off. Should be fun, not work.

To you and all!

Happy St, Patrick’s day, I had my climbing partner down south give our Patron Patrick a spank on the butt! Except he’s a Scot. Declares it every year we do this too.   

With all your VO2 and beats per minute you people are analysing the FUCK out of yourselves. The only time I even know my blood pressure is once a year at the doctors. I do have a home blood pressure monitor but I don’t use it. I know it’s high and I do try to remember to take my tablet daily but basically I just eat, drink, smoke and do what I want.
I’ve even stopped weighing myself, there’s no point, I’m resigned with being Mr Tubby Tubster. But my endurance is still good.
What I want to know is how to remain motivated ‘cause my motivation is slipping away and I’m becoming comfortably numb. 

Carl Schneider wrote:

With all your VO2 and beats per minute you people are analysing the FUCK out of yourselves. The only time I even know my blood pressure is once a year at the doctors. I do have a home blood pressure monitor but I don’t use it. I know it’s high and I do try to remember to take my tablet daily but basically I just eat, drink, smoke and do what I want.
I’ve even stopped weighing myself, there’s no point, I’m resigned with being Mr Tubby Tubster. But my endurance is still good.
What I want to know is how to remain motivated ‘cause my motivation is slipping away and I’m becoming comfortably numb. 

Brilliant!  

There is a level of "over-analyzing" that comes with fitness that can suck all the "fun" out of it, for sure.

I used to use Strava and all the trackers but I finally deleted all of those accounts as it became too much self-pressure and it made me hate working out.

For me, I am trying to find a "Happy" middle ground.

I track my weight once a week and then say, "Yup, shouldn't have had that Ben & Jerry's this week" or "Okay, doing well".  I don't drink or smoke and I eat healthy but occasionally there is a pint of B&J's waiting for me in the evening!  I'm not a monk yet!

But there is also so much health anxiety in the world today that it is insane.  I've been in medicine since the late '90's and it seems to have exponentially grown.  Not sure if it is social media, medication ads on TV/internet or what but everyone thinks they have cancer these days and it just consumes so many of my patients and family and friends.

It was starting to affect me as well about ten years ago so I really had to do some self help and calm myself, try some daily meditation (which I suck at--"Oh look, Squirrel!") and try to relax and just take it day to day.  It was not at all easy to do at first and I do not want to dismiss it and tell everyone with it to "Just be happy!" b/c that's not how it works but I made a deal with myself that if I made it to 50 with no health concerns, then I had "Won" at life and every day after that is healthy is a gift and that I need to use it.  I also tell myself that something may come, and I might get some weird problem soon but that day is not today and that I had better "Get after it" b/c tomorrow might be that day.  Not that "tomorrow" possibly being the day makes me stress, it is not the "dis"-stress but the "eu"-stress that motivates me.

It took me a few years to get to that point, and I slide back sometimes in times of overall stress, but it has helped me incredibly deal with it and actually makes me love life more on a daily basis.

Right!  Coffee ramble over!  

Long way to say that I feel what you are saying Lori and you too Carl!

Now! Back to work for me!

Carl Schneider wrote:

With all your VO2 and beats per minute you people are analysing the FUCK out of yourselves. The only time I even know my blood pressure is once a year at the doctors. I do have a home blood pressure monitor but I don’t use it. I know it’s high and I do try to remember to take my tablet daily but basically I just eat, drink, smoke and do what I want.
I’ve even stopped weighing myself, there’s no point, I’m resigned with being Mr Tubby Tubster. But my endurance is still good.
What I want to know is how to remain motivated ‘cause my motivation is slipping away and I’m becoming comfortably numb. 

I definitely climb better the next day after only a few beers and not a half dozen or more. Analysis completed. 

M M wrote:

I definitely climb better the next day after only a few beers and not a half dozen or more. Analysis completed. 

Ha!

Love it!

I was climbing in Nepal in the spring of 2000 and we kept meeting this incredibly positive, funny, insanely great story-teller, just crazy Aussie who was ALWAYS drinking and trying all of these climbs but he never summited any of them but he was just having a blast and he was SOOO ALIVE!!!

Loved hanging out with him!

Others might have been making summits but that Dude was making memories and living and loving each and every day!

My wife and I were just talking about him last weekend!  

You're making me think of him Carl!

Live On!

Last year I finally put down a route that I bashed my head against for two years…also the hardest I managed, ever. It went down after I pulled the plug for the day, ate a giant and greasy pork shoulder sandwich, chased it down with a beer, and then on a lark, decided to just run a fitness lap on it.

That’ll learn me about discipline. :-/

I watched the HBO special called Here to Climb, about Sasha Digiullian last night.  HBO worked in some footage of Lynn Hill along with some interviews as Lynn was Sasha‘s companion for a few of her climbs.  Lynn was describing the difference between the group she grew up with in Joshua Tree and Yosemite versus Climbers today. She said in her early years, climbers were “humble and discreet”.  They didn’t need to be known outside their immediate circle.  Self-promotion would have been an embarrassment. 

As I dig through thick shrubs and Manzanita to explore old routes here it is a way of rediscovering myself. Curiosity for curiosity’s sake. Nothing just stands up and says “look at me”. What was done here was done for its own sake. That’s what I love about climbing . There just is no way to give it a grade or to be declared a winner.  

Tony really scratches his head over this. He has often said “everything is a competition“.  There’s a final touchdown or a home run. People have to be watching or else why would you do it?  Every now and then I see someone rope soloing here or out wandering far into the desert – – it always makes me smile.

Lori Milas wrote:

I watched the HBO special called Here to Climb, about Sasha Digiullian last night.  HBO worked in some footage of Lynn Hill along with some interviews as Lynn was Sasha‘s companion for a few of her climbs.  Lynn was describing the difference between the group she grew up with in Joshua Tree and Yosemite versus Climbers today. She said in her early years, climbers were “humble and discreet”.  They didn’t need to be known outside their immediate circle.  Self-promotion would have been an embarrassment. 

As I dig through thick shrubs and Manzanita to explore old routes here it is a way of rediscovering myself. Curiosity for curiosity’s sake. Nothing just stands up and says “look at me”. What was done here was done for its own sake. That’s what I love about climbing . There just is no way to give it a grade or to be declared a winner.  

Tony really scratches his head over this. He has often said “everything is a competition“.  There’s a final touchdown or a home run. People have to be watching or else why would you do it?  Every now and then I see someone rope soloing here or out wandering far into the desert – – it always makes me smile.

This myth kind of drives me nuts…Bachar and Kauk were on network TV hawking Bic razors and Ford Broncos, respectively, Bridwell and Long had a Camel cig sponsorship, and even Lynn peddled French perfume in fashion mags.