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World’s Hardest 5.8? I need your input!
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Lizard Head Peak 5.8R (FA 1920) https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105760890/southwest-chimney Whitney-Gilman Ridge 5.7 (FA 1929) https://www.mountainproject.com/map/107340303/whitney-gilman-area Vector 5.8 (FA 1935) https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105800572/vector |
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These are all great historical routes, though don’t know if any are the ‘hardest’ 5.8 —however that may be defined ( As you noted previously such status is very much in ‘the eye of the beholder’—based upon personal experience on a route and climbing style). I’ve never climbed Lizard Head so can’t speak from any personal experience, but I am aware that it was an incredibly bold lead at the time of the FA—not only due to technical difficulty, but also very loose, volcanic rock and highly questionable protection ( well, all protection—and ropes—at that time were highly questionable). As a result of the fundamental structural looseness of the rock on that peak, it is very unlikely that the current route is the same as it was at the time of the FA and the current grade is likely more ‘historic’ than accurate by current standards ( and, of course, at the time of the FA—and for decades afterwards, there was no YDS—or other standardized grading system , so there really is no way of knowing how hard the climbing actually was back then—other than damn hard and extremely serious). The Whitney-Gilman is also a climb that has had significant changes since it was first climbed. Instead of crumbly hand and footholds, as on Lizards Head, Cannon is notorious for large loose blocks and major rockfalls that have not infrequently eliminated or drastically altered entire pitches ( routes, sometimes). Over the years such changes have effected several pitches on the W-G and the overall grade, though not the original crux ( Pipe) pitch. Along with the other routes you mentioned, this was first climbed long before there was any grading system in use in this country. Since most of the active climbers of the era had climbed in the Alps, route difficulties were described in comparison to well-known Alpine routes, in this case to the standard route on the Grepon in Chamonix. Once the YDS was adopted in the northeast—in the mid-1960s, and for years afterwards, the climb was graded 5.6–which did seem a bit ‘stiff’, not sure when it was upped to 5.7–which seems about right—a ‘grunt’ with great exposure but not technically that hard. Vector, though, is a real ‘one the hardest 8s’ contender. In 1964, then top Connecticut climbers Sam Streibert and John Reppy published the first guidebook to Ragged Mountain ( one of the earlier guidebooks to an eastern area) and in it, they graded Vector, a route they believed they had made the FA of a couple of years previously, 5.9–the hardest in the book ( and the only one given that grade). It was only after the book was published that they had a discussion with Fritz Weissner, who informed them that it contained “an error “ , since he had climbed the route some 30 years earlier in 1935. Though short, it may well have been the hardest route in the country at the time of the FA. Several very experienced climbers who have climbed both Vector and Mechanics Route at Tahquitz ( frequently described as the ‘first’ 5.8–at least by Californians) agree that the former is technically significantly harder, though the latter route is much longer. And with the one piton that Fritz used for protection, it was a very serious lead. I don’t recall when Vector was downgraded to 5.8 ( probably in the second Ragged guidebook), but, for me, it has always been 5.9. |
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The Flake in Jtree didn’t seem too bad 50 years ago, but I did it last year… That flare is a B!t<h!! |
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I have never thought the pipe pitch was the crux of WG. It's always been the last pitch for me. It wasent too bad climbing out of that dish? when there was a pin to clip but once the pin got stolen it never jived with me. everything is sloper there and the gear is in a weird flare and probobly worthless.. the last half dozen times I climbed it I did the right side 5.9 version simply because i never found anything nicely 5.7 going straight up and never went left because it looked loose so went right out on the edge in the 5,9 with a perfect yellow alien. |
Brys Jungwrote: It’s in North Conway New Hampshire. I just looked. It’s listed as a Wiessner route, not Wiessner chimney. the guides route is not on mountain project. |
SethGwrote: Interesting. I think every one of those you listed is easier than MT. I suppose it comes down to individual strengths and style. |
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It must be something at high altitude. As for not, the first pitch of thin red line on Liberty bell in the Washington State Cascade Mountains is 130’ long, often wet, has a slight traverse, & overhang. It has broken bones of two professional climbers & also a friend of mine. |
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https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106112719/entrance-exam The problem with this question is this: the rating of climbs keeps going up. It’s not that the climbing gets harder it because the climbers are softer. When I climbed this we only had Hexes and Stoppers and some runners. Bulwinkle and I were sure we would die! But the Bird recommended it to Us and we didn’t want to let him down! |
Guy Keeseewrote: Well sometimes the climbing does get harder. I've seen some popular lines get so polished over the years that they climb very differently from when they were first put up. Not as much of a problem on granite but I've seen some limestone routes that were pretty bad. |
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I was gonna mention Entrance Exam. Right Side of The Worst Error is similar, but more frightening. |
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Guy, don't know what sort of youthful stuff you been smoking but over here on the east coast the damn climbs are defiantly getting harder every year.. :( |
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Due to a guidebook error, a friend of mine once got on a 5.8 that really was an 11c. Until the guidebook was corrected, that was the world's hardest 5.8, lol. https://www.mountainproject.com/route/108910190/burning-bush |
Nick Goldsmithwrote: Absolutely!!! It is definitely the climbs, can’t be us—we’re forever youthful. |
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Zig Zag in Joshua Tree was rated 5.8 when I first climbed it. |
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Two things: 1 - looks like you're picking up the mantle from Stefani Dawn, who had this cool "WTF 5.7" project going on climbing.com for a bit (looks like that fell off in 2019) - https://www.climbing.com/byline/stefani-dawn/
2 - my contribution, though certainly not THE HARDEST but one that I've seen befuddle many a strong climber: mountainproject.com/route/1… |
Kevin Worrallwrote: Yeah, the Worst Error is a beast. I thought it was harder than Cream which is perhaps the softest 5.11 in the universe. |
Kevin Worrallwrote: meh, typical 5.8. nothing to get too worked up about. |
Nick Goldsmithwrote: Good one Nick…. But we all get better with age! Kevin- did the Bird send you off to do that one also. He would come and visit our table every morning- roll up a few from my bag- then assign a climb “that would be great for you guys”. Then he would stop back by and repeat the rolling and ask how it went. I loved that Man he was the big daddy I never had. Back to 5.8….. two very popular problems at Stoney were considered the definition of 5.8. Boot Flake and Hoof n Mouth now considered V2 and V1 |
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Feel like I’m late to the party, but recently lead a 5.8+ at the Delaware water gap on Mt tammany and it really had me pumped. I flashed modern times so i agree about it not being all that hard. Another climb at the gap similar to modern times is corkscrew and that’s a great 5.8. Back to denture grip, it’s quite the sandbag and would love to hear someone else get on it and give their opinion. I had to hang twice and shake off, gear is great though but exposure is real |
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Phase III pokeomoonshine (originally graded 5.8+, called out as an egregious sandbag on the second ascent), pt pillar pokeomoonshine (another pokeo bag of sand, awkward offwidth, and shockingly low quality for the cliff, only worth doing to top rope macho, 5.11b), modern times gunks (harder than many gunks 5.10s). Take your pick between these three from NY. |
