Dedicated PAS or sling?

Both work its not that deep end of discussion

Mickey, Did metelious beef that thing up? mine is perhaps 15 years old and hasent been used all that hard  as I seem to recall PTPP breaking one? so I semi retired mine and mostly used a piece of half rope with a  WC Ropeman untill I got the Petzl Connect. 

Nick, I haven’t really kept tabs on what metolius is currently offering as once the petzl connect came out I haven’t really felt the need to look for anything else.  The one in the pic is probably the older metolius offering and were known for not being super strong. They were a good lightweight low profile option for certain uses when safety/strength might not have been top priority.

Noel Zwrote:

At times I have been using this diy PAS made from a 120cm Beal Dynaloop. It is dynamic, double stranded (to compensate for knots). The knots will cinch down in a fall. The clove means I can shorten it if needed. The whole thing can be undone and repurposed any time. The second loop is to extend a rappel device. The knot is a bunny ears variation of a figure of eight. It is a bit cluttery though like most PASs.

I like this setup a lot. 

Any reason you chose the fig 8 bunny ears instead of just using a re-traced fig 8? Also, I appreciate the logic of using the Beal dynamic loop but I think I would use something like the Edelrid Aramid loop instead. I don't see myself shock loading the system in a rappelling context, but I do think having an Aramid loop available on my rack for threading natural anchors does add a degree of safety beyond the standard dyneema loop I'm currently using.

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

Just to counter this argument that you will never see a pro using one.  PAS do in fact get used in non photo shoot environments as well as in the alpine.  Are they standard, no, but they get used when appropriate.

That being said, I don’t know any pros that use them sport climbing or cragging.  Draws or a sling are adequate.

Zoom in and you will see a metolius adjustable daisy.

Yeah, fair enough.

And I do appreciate that all generalizations are bound to be wrong, including this one... So in hindsight the more nuanced perspective you've offered here is almost certainly more reasonable.

All I can say is that nothing triggers me like inefficient rope systems... I'm only human, after all.

the Petzl connect is pretty awesome. it would be nice if it extended a little easier but that might compromise how securely it locks off?  it certainly feels bombproof. 

JonasMRwrote:

I sometimes use a Purcell Prusik as a PAS. Like it for a number of reasons and have also used it as a variable length runner on the way up. I have never fallen on it. I have always assumed that since it is used in rescue situations with greater weight, it should be no problem (even a poor man's Screamer?) maybe just once. Does anyone have any actual tests/numbers/etc to back that up, or am I gunna die? Nevermind.

purcells are the only thing that should be used imo.  literally no reason to fall on it when it’s adjustable, and u just use it for hanging.  costs $5 of cord and is super convenient 

johndricowrote:

In fact, at this year's Arcteryx Climbing Academy in Squamish I overheard not just one, but multiple pro climbers / guides refer to it as a "POS".

I overheard not just one, but SEVERAL pro race car drivers saying my 4 cylinder car is a POS so I guess I should get rid of it.

Mikey Schaeferwrote:

Just to counter this argument that you will never see a pro using one.  PAS do in fact get used in non photo shoot environments as well as in the alpine.  Are they standard, no, but they get used when appropriate.

That being said, I don’t know any pros that use them sport climbing or cragging.  Draws or a sling are adequate.

Zoom in and you will see a metolius adjustable daisy.

You have me there -- if I were climbing in a situation that may require switching from aid to free or mountain boots to rock shoes while wearing gloves then I probably would use a pre-rigged PAS of some kind. But I doubt that's what most folks are talking about in this forum. Obviously there are exceptions to everything in climbing and PAS's have their place. 

My goodness guys.

Fern Gullywrote:

I've used both. They both work. 

R Gwrote:

I overheard not just one, but SEVERAL pro race car drivers saying my 4 cylinder car is a POS so I guess I should get rid of it.

Uhhh it's actually more like you've bolted a spoiler onto your Toyota Corolla. 

You think it makes you faster, and to the untrained eye it might even look faster, but in reality it's just causing drag. 

Your Corrola would actually go faster (and get better mileage) if you removed this fake spoiler and appreciated it's inherent aerodynamics.

Please don't sell your Toyota Corolla. It's a reliable and sensible automobile.

Speaking of drag, that spoiler analogy….

I’ve gone through PAS and PAS-less phases. They’re clearly not mandatory and definitely fun to make the good ol aspersions and clique identifiers against.

It was nice though to construct one leg of my belay anchor the other day out of the PAS and the other from a cloved rope on a locker. It felt fairly efficient to simply unclip the clove and run the rope through through the rap anchors without needing to tether in on another sling first.

Those cliff lip situations where you gotta come onto the rap from above are also helped with all the clip in points a PAS offers.

But what do I know? And, hell yeah, all that dyneema taint flossing is pretty funny!

johndricowrote:

You think it makes you faster, and to the untrained eye it might even look faster, but in reality it's just causing drag. 

Fast: Clip locking biner onto bolt + tie clove hitch.

Slow: Clip locking biner onto bolt.

I think your math is off a bit.

soft cruxwrote:

Fast: Clip locking biner onto bolt + tie clove hitch.

Slow: Clip locking biner onto bolt.

I think your math is off a bit.

Ok, but how are you racking your PAS?

Around your waist? Or like a thong? In either case, you need to unclip it from your harness, let it dangle, then fish the end back up so you can clip it to the anchor.

Or, you're racking it in a shortened configuration so that it sits on top of your gear or underneath it... Which is unnecessary clutter while you're trying to lead.

So tell me where you're saving more time than the two half twists it takes for a handshake clove.

johndricowrote:

Ok, but how are you racking your PAS?

Around your waist? Or like a thong? In either case, you need to unclip it from your harness, let it dangle, then fish the end back up so you can clip it to the anchor.

Or, you're racking it in a shortened configuration so that it sits on top of your gear or underneath it... Which is unnecessary clutter while you're trying to lead.

So tell me where you're saving more time than the two half twists it takes for a handshake clove.

Did I say I even use a PAS?

When I do use a tether I rack it under my gear. It never gets caught or snagged resting under some quickdraws, and I can clip in to an anchor one handed with one motion. A handshake clove takes three motions: Find and clip biner, loop1, loop2.  A mostly insignificant difference but if we are going to claim one is faster, it's going to be the PAS.

Your subborn belief that using the rope is just soooo much better than a PAS is just not true.

especially when you lead in blocks.

I had an interesting idea I tested the other day.. check it out, it might be genius, could be dumb. 

120cm sling, snap gate, and locker I would always carry and have available when ready to descend a multi pitch route. only thing extra was I pre threaded ~30gram “adjust” part of the pretzel connect and it works! It holds body weight and even when unweighted and weighted repeatedly I didn’t notice any slipping (I have heard of some using thin cords and having slippage, but this felt really secure. I could tie knots in it but for now I just left the carabiner I had on the sling as my stopper. Maybe I’ll clove hitch the carabiner next time to the end to prevent cross loading the wire. 

I tested it on several different 10-14 mm slings and it worked perfect with the metolius ones, black diamond and this camp one I have, it was a little difficult to take in slack with a blue water titan sling though, that was near max thickness.

What are your guys thoughts? Of course it isn’t dynamic. The connect adjust piece could be taken apart and re-threaded through your climbing rope if your rigging a top rope on a cliff  and need something dynamic, you could rig  your self a very long extension with progress capture too.

Final thought, what do you guys think about having it pre threaded without having a locker on it, using it like a 120cm sling going up a route. 

but…. YGD

if you do it with a single strand of tubular webbing you will have to knott the webbing to attach is to you harness and you will die like all the other poor souls who have had knotted webbing fail...  

In no way am I trying to be a troll and that was never my intention. I simply was just curious on opinions and why you use one over the other. But it seems that after a while, people here on MP tend to get pretty defensive about their own opinions thinking that they are simply right all the time, thus here we are now 4 pages from where we started. 

Yes these topics I have got answered early in my climbing career but I tend to find it informative to ask a wide range of people about their opinions on it because I myself usually will learn a thing or two from it, but hey that’s just me. So hopefully we didn’t beat the dead horse too bad but I also never expected this thread to go this far. 

Climbing Technology is getting in on the adjustable PAS game with their TUNER I . 

I don't own one, but judging on looks, it looks like it has more utility than the Petzl Adjust. It look kind of elegant too. The claim is, that it can be released while loaded. I like that a lot. I wish hadn't just bought a Petzl Connect.

https://www.climbingtechnology.com/de/outdoor-de/neuigkeiten/reepschnuere-neu/tuner-i

https://www.climbingtechnology.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/TUNER-I-7L930-compact-800x800.png