New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #12

Phylip...... 40 years climbing! Impossible! What, did you start when you were 3?

Thanks to all those who recommended NW Buttress of Tenaya. I think I'm going to go do that with my kid and then we'll meet friends the next day and hopefully bang out Cathedral. 

Bob Gaineswrote:

Hall of Mirrors, Glacier Point Apron, Yosemite Valley.

OMG!  Hall of Mirrors was a dream of mine.  What an amazing route for someone who loves slab climbing.  Tell us the story sometime, Bob?

Here's a nice TR from Clint Cummins on his and Chris Cantwell's rebolting efforts.  Clint (my second climbing mentor and partner) has done such an amazing amount of work in the Valley and Meadows over the years to replace unsafe bolts:

http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Hall-of-Mirrors-rebolting-October-30-2011/t11249n.html

Just a quick note - When Lori said prussik she should have said autoblock, which is actually what she had rigged. It was not in an optimal set-up; it was attached to her left leg loop and she was using her right hand for braking, and her belay device was clipped directly to her belay loop, without any extension. This made it a bit awkward to have a smooth rappel. I'm not a huge fan of the autoblock so I offered no alternative set-up info. We both thought this was something she should bring up with guides in the future.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Just a quick note - When Lori said prussik she should have said autoblock, which is actually what she had rigged. It was not in an optimal set-up; it was attached to her left leg loop and she was using her right hand for braking, and her belay device was clipped directly to her belay loop, without any extension. This made it a bit awkward to have a smooth rappel. I'm not a huge fan of the autoblock so I offered no alternative set-up info. We both thought this was something she should bring up with guides in the future.

It seems to me that the simplest fix here would be to move the autoblock to the right leg loop. Though, ideally, she'd set her rappel up like Bob's is in that photo. Autoblock on the belay loop. Rappel device on an extension. Brake hand can ride on or just above the autoblock. 

Senor - You're right about all that, but again, this is best learned in person under the supervision of a qualified instructor, not off the internet.

Brandt Allenwrote:

Senor - You're right about all that, but again, this is best learned in person under the supervision of a qualified instructor, not off the internet.

Well I was going to get around to mentioning that what I had was an autoblock but I call it a prussik because does it not wrap like a prussik?  But no... it does not. So, that was wrong.  Similar though in effect? 

However the autoblock is all I’ve ever used in my  rappels.  I’m not sure what would have fixed this bumpy ride... it was just so tight.  Maybe if it were on my right leg...maybe that would have been better. It really hugged the rope and took a lot of work to move it down. It definitely braked!!!

Brandt I really can’t thank you enough for your coaching and watchful eye on this.  At no time did I feel nervous or uncomfortable with any of this... but I’ll just want to repeat these new things as often as I can.  Also, I’m itching to go right back and climb those couple crack routes again hopefully clean, and watch you on the neighboring 10+.  Still thinking about the blank wall below that first bolt. Yikes!

——

It was a good news day for me.  To celebrate all I can think of is “exfoliate “ and “beautify”.  I didn’t realize until today that I’ve become a lizard and it’s been forever since I even considered a pedicure.  Exfoliation is something I can’t fuck up and you gentlemen will have nothing to comment on. Autoblock... maybe.    

Phylp!!! 40 Years??? DAMN!!!   Pictures!!!

EDIT: Brandt, I forget. Was the problem that I rigged the rappel device and autoblock while fully weighted on the sling (over that ledge) and I was just having coordination issues? I think next time it would flow. 

Lori Milaswrote:

However the autoblock is all I’ve ever used in my  rappels.  I’m not sure what would have fixed this bumpy ride... it was just so tight.  Maybe if it were on my right leg...maybe that would have been better. It really hugged the rope and took a lot of work to move it down. It definitely braked!!!

One wrap too many on your autoblock can make it too tight and extremely hard to feed rope. Although it depends on the diameter of the autoblock cord vs. the rope, I find that three wraps of my 6 mm autoblock cord is just right for single ropes. 

How many wraps are you using? (and if your brake hand is on your right side, your autoblock should be on your right leg loop).

Edit: What diameter is your autoblock? Too small can make it "bite" too much.

Lori - I don't think the position you were in made it difficult to rig. I showed it to you precisely because for me it is the most comfortable way to do it. 

So for the final time I'm going to say: I think it is a mistake to try to teach this important skill over the internet.

Andrew Ricewrote:

It seems to me that the simplest fix here would be to move the autoblock to the right leg loop. Though, ideally, she'd set her rappel up like Bob's is in that photo. Autoblock on the belay loop. Rappel device on an extension. Brake hand can ride on or just above the autoblock. 

My favorite way to ride! Though I favor the kleimheist knot. 

Brandt Allenwrote:

Just a quick note - When Lori said prussik she should have said autoblock, which is actually what she had rigged. It was not in an optimal set-up; it was attached to her left leg loop and she was using her right hand for braking, and her belay device was clipped directly to her belay loop, without any extension. This made it a bit awkward to have a smooth rappel. I'm not a huge fan of the autoblock so I offered no alternative set-up info. We both thought this was something she should bring up with guides in the future.

No. The climbing world has learned lots of lessons and optimized in various ways.  The most effective and, on balance, safest set-up is:

(1) Device extended somewhere from mid-chest to head level (edited to reflect Buck's comment about a lower position).

(2) Autoblock on belay loop, not on leg loop.

(3) For right-handed people, autoblock managed by left hand, braking managed by right hand.

Cautions: an extended device can easily catch hair (and beards!).  Make sure all long hair is tucked away somehow.  Also beware of letting the device touch your face or shoulder, as it can get hot enough to burn.

Exceptions: Some assisted-braking devices may be as good or better than autoblocks, in which case you don't need the extension and can use the device on your belay loop.  But as I said in a post above, make sure in a safe setting that your device will auto-lock if released when there is very little rope weight on it, i.e. when near the end of the ropes.

This isn't something to learn just before a rappel---know how your gear will perform long before you need it to perform.  Take the time to organize some belayed rappels and experiment with different numbers of autoblock wraps as well as different numbers of carabiners clipping the device.  Do this practice with both double ropes and single ropes, and, if you use ropes of very different diameters with all those as well.  Set up the rappels on three different types of terrain: slabby, vertical, and free-hanging (free-hanging is especially important).  

Know an effective strategy for adding friction while on rappel, in case your set-up is inadequate.

If clothing or hair gets caught in the rap device, you will probably have to unweight the device to free it, and if it is hair you might have to do this while in pain and in an awkward posture. The process is simple; slap a sling with a prusik or Heddon or Kleimheist (Heddon is actually better than the Kleimheist but everyone says Kleimheist) on the rope above the device and stand in the sling to unweight the device.

You might have to turn around and go back up the rappel lines. The best way is to have a guide-belay plaquette that can be reoeriented to become a progress capture device.  Know how to do this; you're gonna need a foot sling again.

Two above two protocols need a foot sling.  A double-length runner is probably the best.  It won't be of much use if you don't have it with you, so you might want to think of a strategy for always having it, e.g. roll or twist it compactly and store permanently on your harness, or stuff it into a chalk bag pocket.

All this practice might take a good part of a day's outing.  Think of it as an investment.  Chances are you won't have to do anything but glide down the rope, but if things head South---and if you are at this long enough they will---you're ready to rumble.

I so appreciate all this discussion and exchange of information, even as I understand Brandt’s feelings that essential training shouldn’t happen on-line.  It is possible to cull the info here and check it out in person with a guide or trusted elder in the climbing world.  As one of the older and least experienced climbers here I have timidity in my favor... I’m so damned cautious. Whatever is talked about here, at least for myself, I take it outside and test it out with someone I trust. 

Just checking this out with the rest of this group—wondering how you feel about this: I was really surprised at the level of joy and exhaustion I felt after just a few hours climbing over at Atlantis (w Brandt) and don’t know how to account for either. I’ve been hiking and scrambling hard all summer. I’ve had a few hours of climbing here or there...mostly slab. None of that compares in quality to being back on rock and climbing!  Why is that?

I slept most of the next day.  Maybe all the weeks out in the sun, dehydration and all the rest finally caught up.  But THIS is what I’ve truly missed... what I was hoping for in moving here... the mixture of nature, laughter, hard work and physical/mental challenge.  

If I thought all the other exercise and activity could substitute for climbing, it can’t.    

rgoldwrote:

(1) Device extended to shoulder to head level.

I have found extending it no longer than xyphoid level works best for me.  

I think that helps keep it a further bit out of hair range and still clear of the autoblock but still manageable.

(not that hair is an issue for me!)

Lori Milaswrote:

Glad to see everyone is getting out and back to some climbing!  Love that grin on Dwain's face!  

In a few days I head back to Rocklin with Tony to finally tackle his surgery.  The doctor has loaded him up with pain med prescriptions... what about me?  I think I should get some, too.  

So, in these last few days I'm getting out all I can here.  It will be hard to leave.  

I have been SO drawn to this rock formation that I keep on hiking back to it... today was the first time I had some sadness about it.  I don't see any way I will ever get to climb it.    

Run For Your Life and Tumbling Rainbow.  

Theoretically, I have heard, these can be top-roped.  But viewing it from sitting on top of the Sentinel (my new favorite thinking spot!) ... I've looked at this formation every which way.  Reading Randy's guidebook, looks like there may be a couple of bolts on top.  Still...   I only know a few people I could ever ask to lead it... and why would they want to?   

I would need to be a stronger climber.    All of this is conjecture... but it is starting to dawn on me that there are reasons we haven't been up there yet.  

A reality check.      

Question: what distinguishes a 'face climb' from a 'slab climb'?  How would Loose Lady differ from Run For Your Life?  At what time does 'slab' become 'face'? 

A slab for me is when the angle is noticeably less than vertical. Near vertical to vertical to just past vertical are steep. Hateful bouldery stuff past that is overhanging... and not climbed by me unless there are really good holds! Since I know you like slab climbing Lori, check out some of the videos of James MacHaffie— the world’s best slab climber. Has climbed numerous 5.14 slabs. Been studying his technique and just got the shoes he uses.

I also distinguish at the 5.9 to 5.11 grades between predominantly edging and friction slabs. I use different shoes for each type. Some are mixed of course, and choosing can be difficult. Rushmore is like slab paradise at the 5.6 to 5.12 grades (Hundreds to choose from...)with a few 13s and one (unrepeated 14). I found a few high quality slabs at Spearfish Canyon on my recent Trip. But that is mostly sandbagged pumpy sequential overhung limestone— uggh! Not a fan...

https://youtu.be/piUlp66-kHs

Here is McHaffie on a 5.13b slab in Spain. He redpointed it 2nd try!. Technique here is fascinating to watch for me... 

phylp phylpwrote:

OMG!  Hall of Mirrors was a dream of mine.  What an amazing route for someone who loves slab climbing.  Tell us the story sometime, Bob?

Here's a nice TR from Clint Cummins on his and Chris Cantwell's rebolting efforts.  Clint (my second climbing mentor and partner) has done such an amazing amount of work in the Valley and Meadows over the years to replace unsafe bolts:

http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Hall-of-Mirrors-rebolting-October-30-2011/t11249n.html

Thanks for sharing that link Phyl! Great to see all those amazing photos!

Mark Orsagwrote:

https://youtu.be/piUlp66-kHs

Here is McHaffie on a 5.13b slab in Spain. He redpointed it 2nd try!. Technique here is fascinating to watch for me... 

Cool video, Mark! Thanks for posting that. To me, it looked like he had quite a few crimpy little edges, no?

I like using the auto block with an extended ATC.  I tie the auto block first, then drag up a couple of feet of rope and let the rest of the rope hang in the auto block from my belay loop.  This gives me a couple of feet of unweighted rope to feed through the ATC and get it set up.  

I like it because it allows me to go hands free.  Not all of my rope tosses are clean, wind, cracks, trees, cactus, chicken heads, flakes, all seem to catch my rope and I need both hands to get it sorted out. I can also use both hands to get that stuck nut out.  

Or the day you are approaching the bottom and notice that while one end of the rope is coiled beautifully on the ground the other is about twenty or so feet off the ground.  Knot off the short end and feed the long end through as if you are lowering a climber, which you are.  This is the day before you buy your first bi-colored rope...

Lori Milaswrote:

Just checking this out with the rest of this group—wondering how you feel about this: I was really surprised at the level of joy and exhaustion I felt after just a few hours climbing over at Atlantis (w Brandt) and don’t know how to account for either. 

Simple answer: That's emotional/mental exhaustion vs. physical. Doing things that test your emotional and intellectual limits is tiring in a different way from must physically rigorous exercise. That challenging edge between fear and moving forward and upward is a primary attraction of climbing for most of us. There aren't that many sports I can think of where a moderated level of fear is just a standard part of the game.