New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #12

I use an ATC with prussik. With very little practice all I can say is it’s a slow and bumpy ride. Unhooking the prussik just to compare felt like taking off a bra at the end of the day.  Just freedom and ease. (Ok poor analogy.   ) So I’ll work with it and it will flow a little better.

I’ll leave this here as part of my own story. I’ve been working with anxiety and fear (in climbing but also the larger world) this summer. Sometimes it’s crippling and certainly dangerous if it comes at the wrong time.

As Bob has said “No problem. There’s still 20,000 single pitch climbs to explore here.” 

But I really need to understand what it’s all about. For sure, in part it’s the unpredictability of blood sugars and never the certainty I’ll catch a low in time. It just cannot happen during climbing or anywhere off the ground.  My doctors have said to limit the invitation to danger.

But this summer I’m learning more about how my own fear works. Adding a GPS and some understanding of my own location has sliced off a huge portion of deep anxiety.  Having an exit plan turns out to be crucial for me. Knowing the walk-off from Atlantis made me able to chill up there and take a lesson from Brandt.  No vertigo as long as I know the way out.

Understanding how to build an anchor, rig a rappel and get myself down is another critical piece for me. Now I’m thinking back to all the times I sat perched up on a ledge while someone ELSE tied and untied knots, fastened me in to some incomprehensible maze of knots and ropes that I could no way repeat.  Huge anxiety.  Just get me the hell down.

As I recall the book Vertical Mind wasn’t really about the psychology of heights and fear and loss of control, but I wish it was.  Right now I’m doing my own study in fear... noticing if I’m getting warmer, colder as I try different strategies ... and I hope what I learn about feeling safe might help someone else—who knows, maybe a lurker here.    

I also know I’m fearless and courageous in some circumstances that would defeat someone else. So, go figure.

——

I have a beautiful grandson with autism. He’s just so exquisitely sensitive that myriad normal things send him into chaos.  I KNOW it embarrasses him and he knows he’s different.  He freaks at the sound of a hairdryer.  He cannot tolerate certain tastes and touches. He has to repeat all his progress over and over to avoid reverting (called rigidities).  He’s just the most courageous kid I know as he squares off against the next demon.  We’re doing this together.   

Lori and Brandt

I talked to Soo the other day. He is 90% sure that he will drive to City of Rocks to meet Jean and I. We are going to be there around Sep 13-19 time frame. 

Soo mentioned to me that if you wanted to go to the CIty of Rocks with him, let me know and I will give you his cell number. He has Silverado 350 4x4  4 door full bed with cap. I believe that he is only a couple of miles up the road from Lori. He is right up the hill from Walmart on Joshua Lane. He is close to Black Rock Campground.

Jean and I are going to meet up with Helen, Dallas, Barb and Idaho Bob. After climbing at both CIty and Castle Rocks, Jean and I are going up to the McCall area to climb at Slick Rock and a couple of days with Bob. After that we will meet up with our son and daughter in law in Moscow ID.

John

Oldtradguywrote:

. Take only small back packs around 20 l. I would hike up Tenaya Peak with approach shoes until you get scared. I would then put climbing shoes on until you get scared again and then take out your rope and gear. You can easily solo most of the route. Both are great easy climbs.

     Is this the official beta?  I can SO relate! 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Curious as to what the grade of the gym climb is... 

I didn't look at the grade, or didn't pay attention, lol! A 5.7, at most? No higher. Maybe even a 5.6. My gym tries to be fairly reasonable with their grades, and not far off from outside, at least by local standards. 

To whoever asked, yes, where I gave up is the crux for me, but because of the particular circumstances and me. Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty consistent throughout and actually a nice climb, for an easy. I'll figure it out second time up. That was the last thing I did, so I was kinda hot and getting hungry. 

One thing about wearing the mask, that I'll have to pay attention to? I didn't drink water the way I should. And, got sweatier. Oops.

Watering the lawn, just got two baking sheets of garden green beans in the freezers, I'll bag them when I'm back. Pretty much ready to go in the morning, just grab food and such and go!

I'll see if I can record some crack flailing!

Oldtradguywrote:

Lori and Brandt

I talked to Soo the other day. He is 90% sure that he will drive to City of Rocks to meet Jean and I. We are going to be there around Sep 13-19 time frame. 

Soo mentioned to me that if you wanted to go to the CIty of Rocks with him, let me know and I will give you his cell number. He has Silverado 350 4x4  4 door full bed with cap. I believe that he is only a couple of miles up the road from Lori. He is right up the hill from Walmart on Joshua Lane. He is close to Black Rock Campground.

Jean and I are going to meet up with Helen, Dallas, Barb and Idaho Bob. After climbing at both CIty and Castle Rocks, Jean and I are going up to the McCall area to climb at Slick Rock and a couple of days with Bob. After that we will meet up with our son and daughter in law in Moscow ID.

John

Yay! I won't be rope soloing for ten days! Well, assuming anyone will climb with me. Dwain says he's in, dunno who else. We can be as spread out as we want, if that worries anyone. Plenty of space! ;-)

Old lady Hwrote:

I didn't look at the grade, or didn't pay attention, lol! A 5.7, at most? No higher. Maybe even a 5.6. My gym tries to be fairly reasonable with their grades, and not far off from outside, at least by local standards. 

To whoever asked, yes, where I gave up is the crux for me, but because of the particular circumstances and me. Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty consistent throughout and actually a nice climb, for an easy. I'll figure it out second time up. That was the last thing I did, so I was kinda hot and getting hungry. 

One thing about wearing the mask, that I'll have to pay attention to? I didn't drink water the way I should. And, got sweatier. Oops.

Watering the lawn, just got two baking sheets of garden green beans in the freezers, I'll bag them when I'm back. Pretty much ready to go in the morning, just grab food and such and go!

I'll see if I can record some crack flailing!

You and your lawn!! 

Oldtradguywrote:

Lori and Brandt

I talked to Soo the other day. He is 90% sure that he will drive to City of Rocks to meet Jean and I. We are going to be there around Sep 13-19 time frame. 

Soo mentioned to me that if you wanted to go to the CIty of Rocks with him, let me know and I will give you his cell number. He has Silverado 350 4x4  4 door full bed with cap. I believe that he is only a couple of miles up the road from Lori. He is right up the hill from Walmart on Joshua Lane. He is close to Black Rock Campground.

Jean and I are going to meet up with Helen, Dallas, Barb and Idaho Bob. After climbing at both CIty and Castle Rocks, Jean and I are going up to the McCall area to climb at Slick Rock and a couple of days with Bob. After that we will meet up with our son and daughter in law in Moscow ID.

John

OTG tell Soo, Dwain/Cosmic says hi.

One of lockers friends.

Old lady Hwrote:

I didn't look at the grade, or didn't pay attention, lol! A 5.7, at most? No higher. Maybe even a 5.6. My gym tries to be fairly reasonable with their grades, and not far off from outside, at least by local standards. 

To whoever asked, yes, where I gave up is the crux for me, but because of the particular circumstances and me. Otherwise, I'd say it's pretty consistent throughout and actually a nice climb, for an easy. I'll figure it out second time up. That was the last thing I did, so I was kinda hot and getting hungry. 

One thing about wearing the mask, that I'll have to pay attention to? I didn't drink water the way I should. And, got sweatier. Oops.

Watering the lawn, just got two baking sheets of garden green beans in the freezers, I'll bag them when I'm back. Pretty much ready to go in the morning, just grab food and such and go!

I'll see if I can record some crack flailing!

So do those self belay things just lower you automatically as soon as you fall do they? I was wondering what happens if you can't get to the top. I've never used one. 

Noticed you did a foot swap before you cam off. Maybe your feet were actually correct and it was a step through with the right foot to a footer off to the left then right hand to the hold you were going for. 

Dwain great to see you are all healed up and back at with Locker!   

Glad to see everyone is getting out and back to some climbing!  Love that grin on Dwain's face!  

In a few days I head back to Rocklin with Tony to finally tackle his surgery.  The doctor has loaded him up with pain med prescriptions... what about me?  I think I should get some, too.  

So, in these last few days I'm getting out all I can here.  It will be hard to leave.  

I have been SO drawn to this rock formation that I keep on hiking back to it... today was the first time I had some sadness about it.  I don't see any way I will ever get to climb it.    

Run For Your Life and Tumbling Rainbow.  

Theoretically, I have heard, these can be top-roped.  But viewing it from sitting on top of the Sentinel (my new favorite thinking spot!) ... I've looked at this formation every which way.  Reading Randy's guidebook, looks like there may be a couple of bolts on top.  Still...   I only know a few people I could ever ask to lead it... and why would they want to?   

I would need to be a stronger climber.    All of this is conjecture... but it is starting to dawn on me that there are reasons we haven't been up there yet.  

A reality check.      

Question: what distinguishes a 'face climb' from a 'slab climb'?  How would Loose Lady differ from Run For Your Life?  At what time does 'slab' become 'face'? 

Lori wrote: "I use an ATC with prussik. With very little practice all I can say is it’s a slow and bumpy ride. Unhooking the prussik just to compare felt like taking off a bra at the end of the day.  Just freedom and ease. (Ok poor analogy.) So I’ll work with it and it will flow a little better."

An autoblock (not a prussik) is what I use.

PS: Run For Your Life is just a little bit harder than Loose Lady. 

In my opinion, slab is pure friction  just the texture  of the granite crystals, no holds. Face has holds, but they  may be tiny. A sport climber would tell you that anything under vertical is slab. It's been too long since I've climbed out west to come up with some good examples. But on the East Coast sliding board on Cathedral is definitely slab and menace to sobriety at Poco is face

Bob Gaineswrote:

Lori wrote: "I use an ATC with prussik. With very little practice all I can say is it’s a slow and bumpy ride. Unhooking the prussik just to compare felt like taking off a bra at the end of the day.  Just freedom and ease. (Ok poor analogy.) So I’ll work with it and it will flow a little better."

An autoblock (not a prussik) is what I use.

PS: Run For Your Life is just a little bit harder than Loose Lady. 

Ok, Bob.  maybe we can review when I see you next.  Mine is close... could probably use a tune-up.  

Went up "Weak Nuts" (5.6) at Lost Ledge today. Here's some video for any insomniacs:

Lori, I agree with june m. Slab is pure friction with no holds or steps - no small features like dimples, ridges, etc. It's like climbing up a less than vertical wall covered in sandpaper. In contrast, with face climbing, you've got little ridges you can use to pull up or step on. Some routes have both types of climbing on them, so the distinction can be moot. Anyway, that's my understanding of the difference.

june mwrote:

In my opinion, slab is pure friction  just the texture  of the granite crystals, no holds. Face has holds, but they  may be tiny. A sport climber would tell you that anything under vertical is slab. It's been too long since I've climbed out west to come up with some good examples. But on the East Coast sliding board on Cathedral is definitely slab and menace to sobriety at Poco is face

This^.

In terms of technique, pure "slab" forces you to rely almost entirely on your feet. Because there's nothing for your hands to pull down on. Hand provide balance and a sense of security but you could never just hang on a hold on a slab climb.

A climb in your area with great examples of pretty much every kind of climbing is "Right On." It starts out with a 5.4-5.5 slab (scary IMO), goes into a hand crack. Then you go up a chimney. After that, a pitch of beautiful, juggy face holds. Then, finally, a bit more slab to the summit. Two raps get you back to the ground and walk-off trail. 

It's funny how we define these things.  In my mind, I classify something as slab vs face depending on my body position.  If my butt is more out and up, like in this picture, I call it slab.  If my hips are in, I call it face.

I can't remember what this climb is.  It's from 8/95, a trip to Tuolumne that I did with two friends that we called "The All-Slab Weekend".  I think it's the south flank of Daff dome, so it could be a climb called It Is Finished (5.11a PG).  I'm celebrating my 40th year of climbing this year!  Heading back up to the mountains for a few days next week.  I won't be leading any 5.11, LOL.  But I WILL be having a great time!

Dragons I enjoyed your video!  Helen I enjoyed your video!  You both looked good!

Lori, an autoblock is better than a prussik for rappel backup because it releases more easily when pressured from above. It isn't pressure per se, it is the compressing of the knot to a smaller length that loosens the turns and activates releasing.  (Releasability under load can be a drawback too.  You can pop loose a fully-loaded loaded autoblock...)  

I think autoblocks have been oversold a bit.  They won't stop you unless you let go of them.  If you somehow lose control and start to zip down the rope, you'll have to let go of your autoblock to activate it, and this is the last reaction anyone will have.  Also, autoblocks will not stop you from rapping off the ends of a rope.  Only knots can do that.  So realistically, autoblocks will save you if something renders you unconscious or otherwise forces you to release your grip. (Eg bee/wasp attack?  But then the autoblock keeps you in range, when what you really want to do is get the hell out of there.)

A potential issue is wrapping the autoblock too loosely in order to make the descent easier. I've seen some cases in which I doubt the autoblock would grab if it had to deploy suddenly. If you are using an autobock, testing it should be part of your pre-rap protocol while you are still protected by your tether.

Autoblocks have become a convenience item for stopping mid-rappel.  This makes it absolutely critical that they are rigged in a way that body motions can't allow the autoblock to run into the rap device and unblock.  This is the main reason for using extensions for the rap device---to keep it far away from the autoblock.  The original method of device on the harness and autoblock on the leg loop has resulted in bad accidents.

The fact that autoblocks allow you to let go at will is a mixed blessing.  The downside is that the commitment to never never never release the brake hand is gone, and people are a lot more casual about the entire rappelling experience than BITD when there were no end knots and no friction knot backups.  No one would rap off uneven rope ends if they were looking down and keeping track of the rope ends, but obviously attention is frequently elsewhere.

Not a rappelling issue, but a vibrant  25 year-old woman just died in the Gunks after a 50 foot leader fall that pulled three pieces.  So sad, and a reminder that we are playing a dangerous game.

Stay safe out there.

phylp phylpwrote:

It's funny how we define these things.  In my mind, I classify something as slab vs face depending on my body position.  If my butt is more out and up, like in this picture, I call it slab.  If my hips are in, I call it face.

I can't remember what this climb is.  It's from 8/95, a trip to Tuolumne that I did with two friends that we called "The All-Slab Weekend".  I think it's the south flank of Daff dome, so it could be a climb called It Is Finished (5.11a PG).  I'm celebrating my 40th year of climbing this year!  Heading back up to the mountains for a few days next week.  I won't be leading any 5.11, LOL.  But I WILL be having a great time!

Dragons I enjoyed your video!  Helen I enjoyed your video!  You both looked good!

That route looks really fun (and slick!), Phyl! I hope we can get to Yosemite "some day". Have my doubts I'll ever be capable of leading 11a. So nice that you've been able to climb for so many years, congrats!

Glad you enjoyed the video. Did you notice the ridiculous amount of gear I brought up on that route? Bill likes to mock me for bringing all my tricams, nuts, and hexes on a climb like this, which is pretty well protected by cams. We'd climbed it in 2017, and I knew Bill did the trick of pushing a single cam higher and higher in the crack to stay protected, but that doesn't seem super safe to me. It probably would've been fine, since the crack seemed more interested in eating my foot than releasing it.

dragonswrote:

 Did you notice the ridiculous amount of gear I brought up on that route? 

I'm the Queen of bringing more gear than most other people, so you'd get no notice or criticism on that point from me.  

I do hope you can get out to California at some point! Post-pandemic.

All good points rgold. In my research for my book Rappelling I found that the number one fatal rappelling accident (by far) was rappelling off the end(s)  of the rope. I like an autoblock backup for making transitions (eg. From rigging a TR with the Joshua Tree System to rappelling), and for the convenience of being able to easily stop and untangle the rope, clean gear, etc.

Here's one of my all-time favorite slab climbs:

Hall of Mirrors, Glacier Point Apron, Yosemite Valley.