New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #8

Carl Schneider wrote: Saturday morning, Fascination, grade 21,top rope, 4 laps...
https://youtu.be/wz3L-WAGV0Y

For people in the USA, AUS grade 21 a 5.10d. Man, you sure can climb fast, Carl!   

Hey Carl,

Do you know this guy, Dave Barnes?  I was introduced to him on Facebook as a fellow Type 1 Diabetic climber.  Turns out, climbing has been his life, mostly in Australia.  I was searching his article for signs that he climbs near you... will have to pull out the map of Australia now and really learn it.  Blue Mountains?  Sydney? New Zealand.

https://www.type1foundation.com.au/news/2018/3/6/when-life-with-type1-takes-a-tumble-from-the-top-dave-barnes-journey

Anyway... I thought of you.  

Lon Harter wrote: Sugarloaf has a wide variety of climbs it's also next to Phantom Spires and Lover's Leap other areas you could try out as well. Sugarloaf is easily accessible and has a few low to moderate routes. I would recommend you start out at the Leap if you have not climbed in these locations yet. All three locations are excellent but the Leap is for sure my favorite place to climb of the three.  You can get 4 to Five pitches up off the deck. It also has a few outstanding Classics climbs of NA there.  I suggest you start out at East wall if you are going with someone who has been there before and is leading.  If it's you are doing your first lead them maybe something on the Hog's Back such as Knapsack crack for your first lead up there.  https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105734270/east-wall
https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105812278/hogsback

Lori and old friend of mine guides up there his name is Petch (ah don't believe anything he says about)  Here is a link to his guiding site.
https://www.loversleap.net/

Petch was my favorite bartender up there when he first moved up to the Leap a great guy to hang out with.

Hey Lon.  Lover's Leap is awaitin'... but I was holding off on that project until Chris returns after his season in Joshua Tree.  I may not be able to wait now!  

One problem I have is a reticence to do much with multi pitch... although I'm warming up to it... because of diabetes.  I just have to be so careful... obviously it puts a real damper on what I climb.  As I figure out blood sugars, insulin, food, rescue, backup plans, it's all getting easier.  Mainly, I just have to know I can get to the ground pretty fast.  Lovers' Leap is kinda tall...   

Probably the same with Sugarloaf... but it was just so shocking to look off to my left when I was driving to Lovers' Leap and see this... THING... just jutting up into the air.  This weekend I thought of it again and wondered if I could just go up and spend a day on that one rock.   I'll call Petch.  THANK YOU!  

BTW... I think LoversLeap guides and Rocknasium are having a group climb at Lovers Leap this weekend.  I was thinking about it.  Does anyone here like groups?  (so far, I haven't enjoyed them much.)

With less than 4 weeks to go before my next trip to Joshua Tree I've been thinking about what needs fixin' here.  

For sure, one thing that didn't go so well last time was my ability to scramble.  I'm wondering what you all do to train for this.  For instance, the approach to Cryptic/SW Corner, with heavy backpack... it was hard not to list like a drunken sailor on the way up, to get up and over those boulders with gear and not slip... and A LOT of time on my butt on the way down.  (inching down boulders on my butt).  

Getting to the base of White Lightening/Poodle climbs at Hemingway is another example.  It would be nice not to just get there at a decent pace... and to be able to descend like a billy goat... just hop along, like everyone else does.  I do an amazing amount of sitting and scooting on descents, and come to think of it, on ascents, too.  

What's in the gym or outside that could help with this?  Maybe I should add a backpack to whatever workout I do?  (ugh)    

John Vanek wrote: +1 for Senor Arroz’s comment on Inreach delays. Don’t always expect it to work as fast as your phone. But it brings greater peace of mind to everyone. My most-used preloaded message is, “All okay, just behind schedule.”

I was thinking it could be good to ferry info when you are in areas without phone service and separated from your group. That could be as simple as someone at the base, and people on the walkoff, or back at camp. 

But? I also kinda like being out of touch, too, when it's just a normal trip. Being able to text, anywhere, anytime? Hmmmmm. What happens when you expect to communicate every minute?

Whoever mentioned the big dog and carrying? It's a similar problem. I actually used to shoot, my dad was a gunsmith so I learned to shoot before I even learned to read. But, there's a mindset to guns. I sold the armament first, after Dave died, because I was decades out of practice to even be safe. Carrying as a weapon? You simply have to always ​be prepared to kill someone. Every moment, every day. I'd rather not work that hard, lol, nor have the mindset for it.

As I said, I'll probably pop for the inreach.

But I don't much like doing so. There's a subtle price tag to it that I'm not sure I want.

Old lady side bar. I remember when my friends and I, all sole proprietors of small businesses, debated about even checking our answering machines ​from another phone somewhere, lol! That continued into the first phones we packed around, and, we didn't give out those numbers. If you wanted us, you had to call the business phone, talk to the machine, and wait for us to call you back. Maybe the next day....or day after!

Climbing wise, it appears I'm taking a longish break. I've not climbed for a month now, since my trip. At the moment, it's still warm enough, but my sole regular partner is not doing well. I just can't talk myself into trying to round up someone else, or get out solo either. And no gym.

So. House projects. And sitting under the cat. Mr. Soxy is very happy, at least.

Best, Helen

Lori, I use a trekking pole...and still sit down, coming down. But, I can't trust my knees, up or down, so everyone I climb with simply has to understand I will be slow on the approach and even slower coming back. That's part of the package.

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

I was thinking it could be good to ferry info when you are in areas without phone service and separated from your group. That could be as simple as someone at the base, and people on the walkoff, or back at camp. 

But? I also kinda like being out of touch, too, when it's just a normal trip. Being able to text, anywhere, anytime? Hmmmmm. What happens when you expect to communicate every minute?

Whoever mentioned the big dog and carrying? It's a similar problem. I actually used to shoot, my dad was a gunsmith so I learned to shoot before I even learned to read. But, there's a mindset to guns. I sold the armament first, after Dave died, because I was decades out of practice to even be safe. Carrying as a weapon? You simply have to always be prepared to kill someone. Every moment, every day. I'd rather not work that hard, lol, nor have the mindset for it.

As I said, I'll probably pop for the inreach.

But I don't much like doing so. There's a subtle price tag to it that I'm not sure I want.

Old lady side bar. I remember when my friends and I, all sole proprietors of small businesses, debated about even checking our answering machines from another phone somewhere, lol! That continued into the first phones we packed around, and, we didn't give out those numbers. If you wanted us, you had to call the business phone, talk to the machine, and wait for us to call you back. Maybe the next day....or day after!

Climbing wise, it appears I'm taking a longish break. I've not climbed for a month now, since my trip. At the moment, it's still warm enough, but my sole regular partner is not doing well. I just can't talk myself into trying to round up someone else, or get out solo either. And no gym.

So. House projects. And sitting under the cat. Mr. Soxy is very happy, at least.

Best, Helen

Helen...  there are so many potential emergencies, as you probably well know.  Perhaps I'm a little overly sensitive to the myriad things that can happen because a number of them HAVE happened, and that panic moment when you realize what kind of serious danger you are in.  

Car breakdown out of range, in the desert. Snakebites. For me, a fast diabetic crash out in the middle of nowhere and not enough sugar along.  A hard fall.  A turned ankle.  My daughter is now in SAR and it's amazing how many people she discovers, who were hiking alone, and totally stuck because they twisted an ankle and can't move.  

And then there's getting lost. (top on my list!)  My daughter ran off-trail to chase her dog... and never found her way back.  She was airlifted the following day, almost 10 miles from the trail.  What finally sold me on a Garmin was the fact that her cell phone was out of batteries, and she was out of cell range anyway.  We all spent one terrifying night, no pings from her cell phone... believing she was dead.

Unless we have no relatives, and no real need to stay alive... it seems foolish to get out there without some kind of communication.  I will say, my inReach has so far been a disappointment because I simply haven't been able to figure out how to use all the navigational capacities.  It's something you have to keep on using to have it be practically useful.  But... I like having it along anyway, just because there is a way to call in, or get help, in an emergency.  

We used to have a SPOT and have switched to an In Reach. It is really nice to let family know when you will be later than expected (we have a pre-programmed message for that). We also like the tracking function so family can quickly check in and see where we are if they are worried (or interested).

My husband and I both work as USAC motorcycle officials for cycling races, and have used the PLBs more than once to call EMS for bad crashes/medical emergencies when there was no cell service and our radios were out of range (some of the races we work are in mountain areas where our standard line of sight radios don't function well and cell service is spotty).

Another bonus with the In Reach is getting updated weather forecasts. We also use the texting function to check in when we are on longer road trips with extended periods off the grid. It is nice for us to be able to check in with some family members dealing with serious health issues (beats driving for miles to get a cell signal every day) - helps me to relax knowing that things are ok on the home front, or I can cut a trip short if needed.

I like our InReach, but I agree with Lori that it takes some work to use.  The thing I use the most is the "location" function, and then "share your location" with a preset to my husband's cell phone.  I do this when I'm out on a long hike.
One thing I ALWAYS do is let him know in the AM where and what I will be climbing and at what time AT THE LATEST he will hear from me again.  I have a single woman climber friend who sends this info to me if they are going into some remote area.  It's good to always have someone know...
Helen, I understand the trepidation of being a woman doing solo road trips.  I do a lot of them heading to and from climbing areas.  I make a point of not driving after dark - it's just too scary for me.
For my solo hikes, I carry bear spray and a scream alarm on a sling over my shoulder - there are mountain lions where I hike.

Lori Milas wrote: With less than 4 weeks to go before my next trip to Joshua Tree I've been thinking about what needs fixin' here.  

For sure, one thing that didn't go so well last time was my ability to scramble.  I'm wondering what you all do to train for this.  For instance, the approach to Cryptic/SW Corner, with heavy backpack... it was hard not to list like a drunken sailor on the way up, to get up and over those boulders with gear and not slip... and A LOT of time on my butt on the way down.  (inching down boulders on my butt).  

Getting to the base of White Lightening/Poodle climbs at Hemingway is another example.  It would be nice not to just get there at a decent pace... and to be able to descend like a billy goat... just hop along, like everyone else does.  I do an amazing amount of sitting and scooting on descents, and come to think of it, on ascents, too.  

What's in the gym or outside that could help with this?  Maybe I should add a backpack to whatever workout I do?  (ugh)    

First tip. Walk around BEHIND Headstone rock before you start up (opposite side from the campground). Much easier from that side. But, yeah, scrambling is hard work. Practice makes perfect. Good approach shoes help. Getting good at downclimbing both forward and backwards helps.

I'm curious when you said you need to be able to "get to the ground fast" because of Type 1 what it is that you're getting to the ground to do? How long does it take you to manage whatever you need to manage? If it's just eating something and waiting for your blood sugar to stabilize is that something you could do up on a multi-pitch? Just curious. You could easily spend a lifetime doing single-pitch climbs in J-tree and never repeat yourself. 

Señor Arroz wrote:

First tip. Walk around BEHIND Headstone rock before you start up (opposite side from the campground). Much easier from that side. But, yeah, scrambling is hard work. Practice makes perfect. Good approach shoes help. Getting good at downclimbing both forward and backwards helps.

I'm curious when you said you need to be able to "get to the ground fast" because of Type 1 what it is that you're getting to the ground to do? How long does it take you to manage whatever you need to manage? If it's just eating something and waiting for your blood sugar to stabilize is that something you could do up on a multi-pitch? Just curious. You could easily spend a lifetime doing single-pitch climbs in J-tree and never repeat yourself. 

Thank you for asking, Senor. I've been giving some thought to starting a new thread on MP for T1D (type one diabetes) just to see if there are any new thoughts on climbing with diabetes.  It was nice meeting Dave Barnes through a FB friend, who has had a stellar climbing career... but distressing to see that he wound up in the hospital with severe low blood sugars in 2017 and had/has brain damage now.  Sounds like he can no longer climb.    

With Type 1 (insulin dependence... what they used to call Juvenile Diabetes), many factors affect blood glucose.  One of the biggest is hard, sustained exercise... it will almost always drive my blood sugar down.  Altitude lowers mine very quickly--so the first few days in Josh or the Sierra I have to pay close attention.  Heat/bright sun.  And a bunch of other variables.  The longer I climb, the more I'm able to predict where my blood sugar is going, and what I will be needing... but it's never close to perfect. That's why having a watch displaying real-time numbers sounded so great... seeing in advance which way numbers are going, so I can stop and take measures before it becomes an emergency.  

So... if for any reason blood sugar is dropping quickly, the body immediately produces adrenaline to force sugar back into the system.  A flood of adrenaline causes anxiety, panic, shaky, eratic thoughts, hyperventilation, breaking into a drenching sweat... and if the blood sugar does not rise back up, then follows extreme weakness, knees buckle, and inability to think straight.  Even vision can go out.   You can quickly become totally incapacitated.  

If the diabetic is still functional enough that he/she can swallow, then getting pure sugar into the body is the thing to do.  For me, grape juice, 7-up is usually the fastest thing to do.  I also have sugar packets, and glucose tabs that I carry with me.  If all goes well, I'm only in that out-of-control state of adrenaline rushing for about 20 minutes.  But the after effects can go on for several hours, shakiness, weakness etc.  

If you can no longer swallow, you're in big trouble.  I always bring a glucagon injection that could be used to revive me in the case where I could not swallow or hold down sugar, fortunately have never had to use it.  (Also helpful during the flu when you can't hold anything down.)  

No one wants me up there in that kind of state.  If I do have a low blood sugar I feel much safer on the ground, prone, quiet and trying to calm down my body while sugar takes effect.  I cannot imagine having to rig up a rappel, cooperate with someone, while in a low.  

I'm also grateful that I haven't freaked anyone out yet. (I don't think).  We keep an ongoing dialogue... I have a rule that if anyone asks me how my blood sugar is (especially before they climb on my belay), I stop, pull out my glucose meter, and test and show them the numbers.  They have a right to know.  

But I do need to say that this lows have happened so very seldom, and I've always quickly handled them.  I have better control than almost anyone else I know.  Bob Gaines once said he didn't want me on multi-pitch until I could guarantee "100%" that my blood sugar was under control.  Back then I gave it about a 75%.  Today I'd bet on 95%.  Still... only with more climbing can I know my own body well enough to be able to guarantee excellent blood sugars on a multi-pitch.  

You probably know by now I hate to miss so much fun.  this is just another layer of challenge...  but I am grateful for Josh because it does fit the bill of keeping me closer to the ground right now.  I'm not accepting this as a permanent state, however...

PS. Senor... 'downclimbing' both forward and backwards?  Are we talking on vertical walls?  Or just practicing scrambling down?  We have a quarry nearby, and it occurs to me I could practice scrambling there, with a backpack.  Could help. 

Lori Milas ·
Hey Lon.  Lover's Leap is awaitin'... but I was holding off on that project until Chris returns after his season in Joshua Tree.  I may not be able to wait now!  
One problem I have is a reticence to do much with multi pitch... although I'm warming up to it... because of diabetes.  I just have to be so careful... obviously it puts a real damper on what I climb.  As I figure out blood sugars, insulin, food, rescue, backup plans, it's all getting easier.  Mainly, I just have to know I can get to the ground pretty fast.  Lovers' Leap is kinda tall...  

Lori ;
A good deal of the belays at the leap provide pretty good stances and you could easily climb with a small pack to bring you items needed for your diabetes.  You could easily take care of whatever needed to be done on quit a few of the ledges up there on the East wall lines or the Hogs back.

An other place that has a lot of single pitch is the Bowman Emeralds area off of I 80
https://www.mountainproject.com/area/114347347/bowmanemeralds
Specifically  you might enjoy https://www.mountainproject.com/area/107435962/the-fun-house
It has a mixture of Trad and Sport single pitch moderate routes.   A good friend of mine Mike Carville did some of the development up there.  A single 60 mil rope will get you up to the anchors to set up TR's to work the lines.

Mark E Dixon wrote:

How many have you really tried?

Three or four... Tried the start of this:

Lori Milas wrote: Hey Carl,

Do you know this guy, Dave Barnes?  I was introduced to him on Facebook as a fellow Type 1 Diabetic climber.  Turns out, climbing has been his life, mostly in Australia.  I was searching his article for signs that he climbs near you... will have to pull out the map of Australia now and really learn it.  Blue Mountains?  Sydney? New Zealand.

https://www.type1foundation.com.au/news/2018/3/6/when-life-with-type1-takes-a-tumble-from-the-top-dave-barnes-journey

Anyway... I thought of you.  

Sydney is a fair way from me. I live in Mount Torrens, in the Adelaide hills. I travel to Mount Araps and tmThe Gramps a few times a year.. 

Lori, a type one forum would be most welcome, I expect.

As someone else said, I'm thinking you just need the right belays for multipitch so you can be on a ledge or some such. But? That might also mean leading, so the partner can quickly lower you down. Which would then mean, maybe, consider sport multi so you can be lowered off a bolt. And, in any case, stay well within your climbing ability on a longer climb. There's lots of fun, easy multi out there!

I think it would also be pretty reasonable to practice tandom rappels with trusted partners. I've not done this yet, myself, but it isn't complicated (watched some peeps practicing at COR one time). Knowing they ​can get you down might be a game changer some day.​​​

And yeah, I forgot about your daughter. As to "family", sheesh, there are people on here ​who would kill me if I ever went missing or overly stooopud.

Good points, Erika. I forgot about you keeping track of the homefront when we were at Maple, although I'm the oldest left of our family, now. Strange thought, that...

Best, Helen

Lori Milas wrote:

Thank you for asking, Senor. ...

You probably know by now I hate to miss so much fun.  this is just another layer of challenge...  but I am grateful for Josh because it does fit the bill of keeping me closer to the ground right now.  I'm not accepting this as a permanent state, however...

PS. Senor... 'downclimbing' both forward and backwards?  Are we talking on vertical walls?  Or just practicing scrambling down?  We have a quarry nearby, and it occurs to me I could practice scrambling there, with a backpack.  Could help. 

I meant scrambling on 3rd and 4th class stuff both going down facing away from the wall and facing in. Like my climbing partner here coming off Tahquitz the other day. If you can climb vertical walls facing out, well, you're better than me by a long shot.

Carl Schneider wrote:

Three or four... Tried the start of this:

https://www.thecrag.com/climbing/australia/morialta/route/13537603

And did you get seriously injured or have some other untoward experience?

I hope everyone got a chance to get out and enjoy Veterans day.  To all the Vets thank you for making our freedoms possible.

Lon Harter wrote: Lori ;
...
An other place that has a lot of single pitch is the Bowman Emeralds area off of I 80
https://www.mountainproject.com/area/114347347/bowmanemeralds
Specifically  you might enjoy https://www.mountainproject.com/area/107435962/the-fun-house
It has a mixture of Trad and Sport single pitch moderate routes.   A good friend of mine Mike Carville did some of the development up there.  A single 60 mil rope will get you up to the anchors to set up TR's to work the lines.

+1 for Bowman/Emeralds.  The Fun House is a 2 minute walk from parking.  My son and I climb there quite a bit. There is only 1 trad climb on the Fun House wall (5.6).  It's also fairly easy to walk up to the top from the left side to set top ropes.  The Dollar Store area (sorry I don't know how to include a link to the area in this message) is usually crowded and a little more walking to get to, but has a few great sport routes as well. 

Was preparing for an outdoor trip and had an injury setback that has led to a broader question. Took a lead fall last night while trying to triple lap an overhanging 5.10 route in the gym. Long story...Belayer was a bit of an issue, and I was over-confident (I have been climbing well). As it was a classic "pump fall", I saw it coming and was in my cat-stance perfectly. Wasn't huge-- maybe 10-footer. When I contacted the wall though, immediately felt a twinge in the inside of the right ankle as the catch came and the toe contacted the wall. Didn't feel terrible, but...and sure enough woke up this morning, and it is sprained. Probably badly enough that I will miss a trip that I trained for months for...This is the second nearly identical injury in a year for this same ankle; jacked it up last spring when I peeled off (that was only a medium length fall too...) a 5.11a at HCR. Have taken plenty of sport lead falls-- inside and out; never had this issue before this year. Obviously , my body (at least my right ankle) can't take lead falls like it did formerly. Have some of the hardcore veterans like Rich figured out how to protect older bodies better in lead falls? Should I flex my feet upwards as part of the cat stance or try to brace more for impact? I had learned cat-stance and stay loose to avoid injuries. This advice seems suddenly no longer workable at 57. If I am going to lead at my limit (indoors and out), I am going to fall; so, this is becoming a big issue.