Fatal accident in Jtree.

This sounds like a terrible accident.  Is there any more information about how this happened?  Was it really an anchor failure?  

https://www.reddit.com/r/socalclimbing/comments/tpy1a9/fatal_climbing_accident_sat_326_in_josuha_tree_np/

RIP Tina, and sympathy to family, friends, and all involved.

Thanks Adam.  Not on facebook, so didn't catch that.  Terrible accident.  Keep climbing Tina. 

Rest in peace, Tina.

So sad.

So sorry to hear.
RIP

I'm so sorry to read this, how traumatic for her friends and family.  You're all in my thoughts.

Adam Burch wrote:

This was posted on a FB climbing group by Matt Himmelstein

Thanks for posting that Adam.  I was going to get around to posting it here as well.

Bruno Schull wrote:

This sounds like a terrible accident.  Is there any more information about how this happened?  Was it really an anchor failure?  

https://www.reddit.com/r/socalclimbing/comments/tpy1a9/fatal_climbing_accident_sat_326_in_josuha_tree_np/

RIP Tina, and sympathy to family, friends, and all involved.

I can't say with certainty what failed, but the anchor bolts and hangers were fine, I had rapped on them 15 minutes prior and folks were top roping off them previously.  She cleaned that gear, and all that was left was the hangers and some tat.  Her ATC was threaded and fell with her, so I can only guess that she relied on the old slings and that is what failed.

Thanks for the information Matt--really appreciated.  Not trying to place blame at all, just understand.  I climb mostly in the Alps, and often rap from tangles of old slings, webbing, cord, and what not.  This is a tragic reminder to check everything over carefully.  It must be so hard on everyone involved.  I'll definitely keep her stoke and smile in my mind next time I climb.  

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

I can't say with certainty what failed, but the anchor bolts and hangers were fine, I had rapped on them 15 minutes prior and folks were top roping off them previously.  She cleaned that gear, and all that was left was the hangers and some tat.  Her ATC was threaded and fell with her, so I can only guess that she relied on the old slings and that is what failed.

So sorry for you guys Matt... and of course Tina and her friends and family.  Is anyone investigating what actually happened?  Maybe JOSAR or the Sheriff or other agency?  

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

I can't say with certainty what failed, but the anchor bolts and hangers were fine, I had rapped on them 15 minutes prior and folks were top roping off them previously.  She cleaned that gear, and all that was left was the hangers and some tat.  Her ATC was threaded and fell with her, so I can only guess that she relied on the old slings and that is what failed.

Could it have been her extension that failed? I am SO sorry for your loss. It seems if the slings failed you'd have been able to find them split...

How was there no quick links or rap rings on the hangers? This is tragic. 

It seems really odd not to have any hardware on an anchor besides the bolt and hanger itself. This should be taken up by the local climbing coalition. Tat straight through sharp hangers is dangerous enough even in brand new condition. And then pull your rope through once and you'll have compromised slings, after one use. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

How was there no quick links or rap rings on the hangers? This is tragic. 

It seems really odd not to have any hardware on an anchor besides the bolt and hanger itself. This should be taken up by the local climbing coalition. Tat straight through sharp hangers is dangerous enough even in brand new condition. And then pull your rope through once and you'll have compromised slings, after one use. 

There are lots of routes in Joshua Tree with bolts and hangers on top but no other hardware. That’s usually a sign that there is a walk-off, but a lot of Jtree walk-offs are fairly involved or sketchy, and people will sometimes rap off in all sorts of interesting ways. I have no idea if the route in question fits that scenario, though.  

I want to preface the following with respect for the fallen climber and the others who unfortunately witnessed this accident.. It sounds like others were top roping and rapping off this anchor with the questionable tat, but left it in place?  As a general rule, if you ever come across old, weathered tat on a route like this (especially at a crag, this doesn’t necessarily apply in the alpine) just cut the stuff out and pack it out. Places like Jtree have become mobbed with new/inexperienced climbers and you could potentially save a life by doing so. At worst, you’re helping clean up old litter.

RIP Tina.

Matthew Jaggers wrote: It seems really odd not to have any hardware on an anchor besides the bolt and hanger itself. This should be taken up by the local climbing coalition. Tat straight through sharp hangers is dangerous enough even in brand new condition. And then pull your rope through once and you'll have compromised slings, after one use. 

Unfortunately, this is the norm in JTree.  Modern style convenience anchors suitable for TR are often chopped.  Yes - lots of time bomb slings instead all over the park.  Nonsense old school ethics bullshit, for sure.

Jason Kim wrote:

I want to preface the following with respect for the fallen climber and the others who unfortunately witnessed this accident.. It sounds like others were top roping and rapping off this anchor with the questionable tat, but left it in place?  As a general rule, if you ever come across old, weathered tat on a route like this (especially at a crag, this doesn’t necessarily apply in the alpine) just cut the stuff out and pack it out. Places like Jtree have become mobbed with new/inexperienced climbers and you could potentially save a life by doing so. At worst, you’re helping clean up old litter.

RIP Tina.

Everyone who was there who noticed the tat wishes they had removed it prior to Tina climbing.  There wasn't a walk off from the route that I noticed, but you could downclimb something in the 5.5 range to get down.

A few lessons can be gleaned from this tragedy…lessons that need to be tattooed into the collective consciousness of the wider climbing community  

1. A shitty “anchor” left in place helps no one. If you see something, fix something (or like Jason said, just remove it). The mindset of Leaving a compromised death trap for the next team is messed up.

2. Shitbirds who “booty” anchor hardware should not be tolerated. Booty is on route. period. Anchors should be sacrosanct. If someone left it at the anchor — I don’t care if it’s a mint condition Silent Partner — just leave it the fuck alone.

not picking on or blaming any one group or person.      This is on all of us because as a group, we let this slide all too often. 

This seems like a good place to remind people that if you need to leave soft goods behind for a rappel, cordalette is preferred over slings as the sheath protects the load-bearing core from the sun.

RIP, Tina.

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

...the anchor bolts and hangers were fine, I had rapped on them 15 minutes prior and folks were top roping off them previously.  She cleaned that gear, and all that was left was the hangers and some tat.  Her ATC was threaded and fell with her, so I can only guess that she relied on the old slings and that is what failed.

I guess I'm just confused here... people keep referring to "the tat" yet this comment indicates there were bolts (and rap rings), how could tat be involved if there were anchor bolts to rap off of?

At risk of opening a can of worms (and against my "less government is better" mindset), might it be time for the park to officially sanction anchor/rap hardware within the park, at the very least on the most popular routes? Not a guarantee against bolt chopping, but might help the chances of anchors being left alone and avoiding stupid rats nests of tat.

Christian Hesch wrote:

I guess I'm just confused here... people keep referring to "the tat" yet this comment indicates there were bolts (and rap rings), how could tat be involved if there were anchor bolts to rap off of?

It was tat tied through two bolts with hangers, rap ring on the tat. 

Matt Himmelstein wrote:

Everyone who was there who noticed the tat wishes they had removed it prior to Tina climbing.  There wasn't a walk off from the route that I noticed, but you could downclimb something in the 5.5 range to get down.

It’s a horribly tragic accident and a learning moment, I hope my comments didn’t come across as assigning any blame. In this game, we are ultimately responsible for ourselves (especially when setting up our own rap) and accidents happen. The best we can do is learn from them and discuss this stuff to help prevent it from happening in the future. Hang in there.

Tradiban wrote:

It was tat tied through two bolts with hangers, rap ring on the tat. 

I'll begin by saying that I did not know Tina. It's clear that she was a fantastic person, and so many grieve for her that it's hard to comprehend what happened. It's a terrible thing, and rarely have I been so touched by the death of a person I did not know.

Of course, as a climber, I cannot help but be curious about the cause of this awful accident.

It's been said that the anchor was bolts, tat, and a ring. The question is, what failed. Tat? The ring? Or was another element of human error involved?

It appears, based on the information available to date, that no one has been up to inspect the anchor in an effort to determine what happened. If the webbing parted it will be obvious. If not?

"Condolences" feels like a weak word in this case. But I offer mine to Tina's loved one's, family, and friends.

Edit: By "bolts, tat, and  ring," I describe the antiquated practice of tying webbing through the hangers, and through the ring. The ring not being attached to the hangers, but just hanging, threaded by the webbing. This arrangement was safe the day it was set up. And if the ring was an old SMC rolled aluminum thing, typically there would be two for redundancy.

Was this climb a rarely done obscurity?

Terribly sad.  Old tat nearly killed Donini.  No bueno.