Fatal accident in Jtree.

As someone who replaces anchors and fixed hardware in the areas I frequent (Josh, Yosemite, Smith Rock, and Red Rocks specifically…), I’ve actually put mussies or stainless steel permas on certain routes to lower off of in Josh and every single one has been removed. It’s unfortunate that this old school mindset still prevails there, contributing to these easily preventable accidents…

It bothers me that everyone is assuming tat failed without anyone viewing actual evidence.  There are multiple other possible scenarios including improperly threaded rappel, missed/incorrect clip with a personal anchor.  As Kris suggested, can we suspend the assumptions pending evidence?  

RIP Tina, I hope we are able to learn what happened based on actual facts about the incident and gain wisdom from this terrible event. 

Adam

The Local Climbing Coalition is to blame for this nonsense "ethics" approach. Everyone on the board of this Coalition should immediately resign, and a new direction should be taken going forward. Anyone caught removing hardware from anchors should be prosecuted for tampering with a life saving installment. Thats my take. If youre the Director of the JTree climbing coalition, you should immediately fire everyone and then resign. After hearing more, this loss of life is unacceptable. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/desert-isnt-kind-nylon-witness-043731993.html

Ryan Wood wrote:

As someone who replaces anchors and fixed hardware in the areas I frequent (Josh, Yosemite, Smith Rock, and Red Rocks specifically…), I’ve actually put mussies or stainless steel permas on certain routes to lower off of in Josh and every single one has been removed. It’s unfortunate that this old school mindset still prevails there, contributing to these easily preventable accidents…

Time for the local park superintendent/director to have a conversation about that "old school mindset" with the folks most likely to promote it. Maybe a new regulation that states either there are standard safe anchors or no fixed anchors at all is a start. Nylon has no place in any fixed anchor on public land in 2022. Vandalizing bolts, stealing hardware, etc by independent operators should be strongly discouraged as well by the broader community. It's not 1990 anymore and the old warriors should come out of the jungle.

Tina obviously left a lot of love in her wake. Seems like she would have been really fun to climb around, I hope her friends and loved ones can find comfort together.

I didn't know Tina but it is obvious from all the posts that she was deeply loved and gave a lot to other people and the community. My condolences go out to all her loved ones and friends.

This was an entirely avoidable tragedy and there's no reason someone should be forced to choose between rapping off old tat or a 5.5 down solo. Everyone should also be commenting on the next version of the proposed JT climbing management plan, which as currently written would make it even harder to install fixed anchors in many areas of the park. 

FrankPS wrote:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/desert-isnt-kind-nylon-witness-043731993.html

I think that was the most well articulated news report of climbing I've ever read. 

Tragic accident :(

Kyle Gibson wrote:

The metal hooks that you can lower from 

He didn't ask what they are - he asked what's wrong with them (assuming he meant their usage).

Peter T wrote:

This was an entirely avoidable tragedy and there's no reason someone should be forced to choose between rapping off old tat or a 5.5 down solo.

Maybe this isn't the place for your agenda? So all I'll say is that a climber in that situation also has a third choice: leave new webbing. Not every climbing venue has to be made "totally safe and comfortable" (as if that could even be done).

Tina was a fantastic human. Totally in love with life and left huge wakes everywhere she went. In the last few years she made a major change and focused more on climbing and was living out her dreams, getting after it every chance she could and sharing it with her friends. Always competent, safe and objective. My heart is very heavy today.

Check your knots and keep systems redundant - whatever happened, we should always stay diligent. 

Kristian Solem wrote:

Was this climb a rarely done obscurity?

That area is not commonly climbed, at least compared to other areas in the park. The rock quality is mostly poor and route finding is a challenge. It’s not a destination at all, but it’s tempting to have a leisurely group session if you are camping at Sheep Pass (most people who camp there are not climbers). That crag has been mostly abandoned since the FAs were established. The anchor, whatever the contents, was probably old and rarely used.

Brad. Soft goods  have  zero  place  in a bolted anchor.  Anyone who advocates the  use of sling or  cord as part ofa bolted anchor is  incompetent and has  no  business  installing fixed anchors. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

Brad. Soft goods  have  zero  place  in a bolted anchor.  Anyone who advocates the  use of sling or  cord as part ofa bolted anchor is  incompetent and has  no  business  installing fixed anchors. 

That’s a reasonable position for front-country crags, but tat is everywhere in the alpine environment here in CO.

Brad Young wrote:

….Not every climbing venue has to be made "totally safe and comfortable" (as if that could even be done).

Totally agree.  In the proper context.  However I don’t see how keeping an area a half-assed mess is somehow better.  What’s your point here?  How in fuck does a rapidly deteriorating mess of webbing/cord have a better place in some eyes, than std hardware?  

Ryan Wood wrote:

As someone who replaces anchors and fixed hardware in the areas I frequent (Josh, Yosemite, Smith Rock, and Red Rocks specifically…), I’ve actually put mussies or stainless steel permas on certain routes to lower off of in Josh and every single one has been removed. It’s unfortunate that this old school mindset still prevails there, contributing to these easily preventable accidents…

I think the disappearance of your gear may be more a case of one man's madness than an old school mindset., I believe Tina and crew were on lesser-traveled routes

Kristian Solem wrote:

I'll begin by saying that I did not know Tina. It's clear that she was a fantastic person, and so many grieve for her that it's hard to comprehend what happened. It's a terrible thing, and rarely have I been so touched by the death of a person I did not know.

Of course, as a climber, I cannot help but be curious about the cause of this awful accident.

It's been said that the anchor was bolts, tat, and a ring. The question is, what failed. Tat? The ring? Or was another element of human error involved?

It appears, based on the information available to date, that no one has been up to inspect the anchor in an effort to determine what happened. If the webbing parted it will be obvious. If not?

"Condolences" feels like a weak word in this case. But I offer mine to Tina's loved one's, family, and friends.

Edit: By "bolts, tat, and  ring," I describe the antiquated practice of tying webbing through the hangers, and through the ring. The ring not being attached to the hangers, but just hanging, threaded by the webbing. This arrangement was safe the day it was set up. And if the ring was an old SMC rolled aluminum thing, typically there would be two for redundancy.

Was this climb a rarely done obscurity?

The tat failed.  Some of the sling came down with her and folks did go back and look.

I never noticed the tat because when the top rope was set up, my friend used his gear, but she cleaned all that and it was either thread through the ring or the hangers.

I can't say how much the route is climbed, but I would expect that it did not get a ton of traffic.  It isn't on MP or in many guide books.

Adam Kimmerly wrote:

It bothers me that everyone is assuming tat failed without anyone viewing actual evidence.  There are multiple other possible scenarios including improperly threaded rappel, missed/incorrect clip with a personal anchor.  As Kris suggested, can we suspend the assumptions pending evidence?  

RIP Tina, I hope we are able to learn what happened based on actual facts about the incident and gain wisdom from this terrible event. 

Adam

We are not assuming.  The tat failed.  End of story.

RIP Tina, I'm sorry this happened to you. 

To all those trying to make Tina a martyr to push your poorly thought agenda using incomplete information, just stop. There are something like 8000 routes in Jtree, and you want to what... put brand new bolts and rings/mussy hooks on every one of them? Even if that was an option, the NPS will never accept it. And are you personally going to carry the tools up to replace those when they're worn out from people top-roping through them? Mussy hooks and the like are great, but for convenience, not for safety. Do you know the stats for deaths due to walking off climbs vs getting lowered or rappelling? Climbing will always be dangerous, best to just accept that and adjust your actions accordingly rather than turn this into a political argument that we'll definitely lose. 

I think the people criticizing soft goods on a bolted anchor have never climbed at Joshua Tree or are forgetting the reality of climbing there. There's no vast conspiracy against anchors.  There is the practical reality of the vast number and nature of routes. Firstly, the climbing covers a really vast physical area.  Secondly there are a vast number of climbs, more than ten thousand recorded.  Maybe 500 of these get done on any regular basis, if that?  Thirdly, so many of the remaining climbs are obscurities, rarely done.  If there is an anchor at all on the obscure formation, it could have been installed 40-50 years ago when it was very common to use sling in bolts for rappels.  When I first started climbing in the Valley, almost every fixed anchor was like that, set to rap with slings, and it was your job to change them out of you were unhappy with them. At J Tree, it's possible no one has gone back to change out those slings for chains because almost no one has gone back and done the route. Many climbs in JT are on complicated jumbles of large boulders, often not resembling cliffs as you imagine them.  The climbs follow fractures and features in a very complex topography.  The topouts are rounded and complex, often not amenable to setting up a rap situation at all, because of the horrendous drag issues that would occur. Third and 4th class downclimbing is still routine on many formations because that is still, even today, the best way down. On some formations, people have found a good spot for a single anchor for a formation, you work your way over to that if you want to rap down.

Tina was a great friend to many southern California climbers.  She was an experienced and skilled rock and ice climber.  Whatever the exact details of what happened, it happened at the end of a happy day of climbing with friends.  I have had thousands of such long, happy days myself, and I know the state of happy weariness and mild distraction one can have.  All it takes is a moment of inattention.  Maybe she forgot to inspect the sling.  Maybe she forgot to pre-weight the anchor.  Maybe she did both those things and said to herself "it's OK".  We'll never know.  

As always, when these things happen, it's a horrible reminder to us to never let your guard down until you're safely back on the ground.  

Rest in peace, Tina Fiori.