Mountain Project Logo

Fatal accident in Jtree.

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Hi Everybody.  

As the OP, can I respectfully ask that we let this thread rest?  I'm definitely in favor of sharing details about accidents so we can all learn, but I think the information about the accident is now clear, and it's time to process.  The ongoing discussions about bolting, tat, and Jtree are relevant and important, but perhaps it can continue elsewhere.  

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

You can lock the thread to further replies if you like. 

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Thanks Marc.  I'm not usually into closing or locking threads--the only time I tried to close a thread on MP was when folks were boasting about guns, bullets, kill rounds, and what not.  I've previously argued that accident threads should be maintained, for information to be shared, and so on, so I think it would be hypocritical for me to lock this thread, but a couple of the comments above did come dangerously close to dishonoring Tina's life.  I'll let if run for now, but, folks, let's try to remember that the most dangerous climbers are the ones who think they have it all figured out.  This could have happened to any of us.  Let's try to bear that in mind before we cast blame.  

Gumby King · · The Gym · Joined Jun 2016 · Points: 52
Bruno Schull wrote:

Thanks Marc.  I'm not usually into closing or locking threads--the only time I tried to close a thread on MP was when folks were boasting about guns, bullets, kill rounds, and what not.  I've previously argued that accident threads should be maintained, for information to be shared, and so on, so I think it would be hypocritical for me to lock this thread, but a couple of the comments above did come dangerously close to dishonoring Tina's life.  I'll let if run for now, but, folks, let's try to remember that the most dangerous climbers are the ones who think they have it all figured out.  This could have happened to any of us.  Let's try to bear that in mind before we cast blame.  

One option to consider is you could close this thread and start another discussion about climbing anchors, tat, etc etc.  Share the link in this thread and ask people to stick with honoring/remembering Tina.  I think there is a memorial page as well.  

I think this thread, as is, falls into four valuable categories: Remembering/Honoring Tina, Accident Report/Analysis, Bolting/Anchoring Ethics/Practices, and Armchair Debating.

I personally value the conversation people are having about the anchoring bolting situation in Jtree.  Many of these opinion are in line with my views (Note, I have a pretty good understanding about the historical bolting practices) and having designation rap stations in Jtree can help reduce the ecological impact as climbers wander back to their starting point.  I really hope that many people would share their opinions with JTNP as it can help inform their climbing management plan.  However, I do think this specific discussion should be in a different thread as it can become troll food.

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Thanks for all the input folks.

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

Accident  threads  always  turn  into  analysis . People  should  accept that and  create  memorial  threads  to  honor the  victims.  Accident and risk management  is what we do as climbers  to try and stay alive.  That is why  AINA is published by the AAC.  It is unrealistic to create an accident  thread and not allow the  discussion of how did it happen and what can we do to help  prevent  future accidents.  Accept that this is how  climbers  process accidents. Everyone is respectful and thoughtful  in memorial  threads. Not so much when talking about anchors..

Tradiban · · 951-527-7959 · Joined Jul 2020 · Points: 212
Matthew Jaggers wrote:

I will for sure. Ive hounded our lcc to make public stances against devious activities in the Red, and the only thing they've said is they can't because of liability concerns, and I simply can't accept that as truth. Publicly stating that theft and vandalism will not be tolerated, including consequences for those caught, has nothing to do with claiming liability for fixed gear, and would create a better situation for everyone in the community, sans all the Snyder types who get off on stealing gear and destroying the work of others. 

Technically bolts on public property are abandoned and it's not illegal to take them.

Advocacy groups and government will not take responsibility for anchors because they would become liable for their failure.

Peter T · · Boston · Joined May 2016 · Points: 26
Tradiban wrote:

Technically bolts on public property are abandoned and it's not illegal to take them.

Technically you are wrong, at least at JT. Removal of fixed anchors requires a permit as of February. 

Nick Goldsmith · · NEK · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 470

Not  accurate. Pretty  sure NPS installed the anchors at Otter cliffs. 

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Just stepping back in here to direct readers to the memorial page for Tina Fiori.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/122157148/tina-fiori

Keep climbing Tina!

This topic is locked and closed to new replies.

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.