Getting divorced and climbing is a big reason why. Advice?

Mark Pilate wrote:

 The main intractable issue is that many women labor under the delusion that there’s a decent guy out there somewhere. 

I believe you just nailed it sir.

Climbing is a jealous mistress. So if you can’t turn it into a threesome… someone is going lose.

LOL Charlie, that's the most masculine wisdom I've ever read.  Someone's gonna say it's toxic, but I say it's MASTERFUL.  

Ben F wrote:

My wife and I are getting divorced and I feel pretty shitty and am hoping to hear some advice from anyone who has been through this.

We have been together almost ten years and have had our normal share of problems, but until the last 2 years when things really started going downhill, I didn't think there was anything out of the ordinary and we were by and large happy. She is only mildly interested in climbing and doesn't like suffering at all so we don't get out climbing together all that much. She had the patience of Job with allowing me tons of time to go climbing, including lots of shorter trips. There were a lot of trips where she would come and chill and hike or something while I went climbing too. I felt like I was conscious of the time component and tried to include her as much as possible and really be present with her the rest of the time but between our jobs, life, and my climbing time, it turns out that there might not be enough time for it all.

Thankfully the process of divorcing shouldnt be too bad since we have pretty equal assets/income, no kids, and we don't hate each other. But I feel pretty lost in general and second guessing a lot of my life. There were other issues that drove us apart but I'm still spending a lot of time wondering if I screwed up by spending so much time climbing. Are there climbing fanatics out there that actually make it work with a non-climbing or minimal-climbing partner and also feel fulfilled with the amount of climbing they get in?

I'm sorry you're going through this. Reaching out to talk is good. You're going to need support from someone who is not your wife, so lean on your friends, family, a therapist.

As others have said, your wife is the only person who can truly tell you why she wants to leave, and how much is due to your climbing habits vs. the other issues you mentioned. Again as others have said, it's rarely one thing. A lot of things build on each other, and when a choice starts to feel right, the reasons align themselves.

One thing to think about, which might or might not have been your issue, is whether your wife felt like an equal main character in the story of your life together, or whether she felt more like supporting cast.

You asked whether there are "climbing fanatics" who make it work with a non-climbing partner and feel fulfilled with the amount of climbing they get in. It's a yes in my case. We've been together for 15 years. My husband does not climb. I was a climber before I met him, and he knew from the start that it would be a big part of my life. I climb in the gym twice a week and outside one day per weekend, with occasional longer trips with friends (husband does not go). One practical consideration - your profile doesn't say where you live, but for me it helps to live really, really close to a variety of good climbing. That way I can wear myself out on some rock and be home with my guy at night.

Hang in there. You seem to be blaming yourself and maybe you deserve that to some extent, but take comfort in the fact that it's not just about you. People split up for all kinds of reasons. You deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you, and who is happy with the life you make together. 

Jkug Kug wrote:

Totally agree- climbing is different to a hobby. 

I think the crux is convincing others that climbing deserves special status in the hobby hierarchy. I'm not sure I'm convinced myself, though maybe I was when I was younger. It's just an especially consuming hobby and unlike some consuming partner habits/traits spouses occasionally learn to tolerate (say being a surgeon, or working 2 jobs), it's hard to make an argument that climbing is doing any good for anyone but the climber. 

Do you think these threads pop up often on running forums? I'd advise my friends to date runners. 

OP - I'm sorry for your struggle. You're asking the right adult questions. 

jdejace wrote:

Do you think these threads pop up often on running forums? I'd advise my friends to date runners. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7559117/ 

The Impact of Family Life and Marital Status on the Motivations of Ultramarathoners: The Karkonosze Winter Ultramarathon Case Study

Abstract

I think ultra marathoners are a bit more fringe than the average climber. I know gym climbers who have struggled with relationships, to say nothing of alpinists. It's just a needy hobby. 

No one who truly loves someone would ask them to stop being themselves. If you truly tried to be a great partner, then don't beat yourself up. Climbing is a useless and selfish pursuit, but it also brings health, mental wellness, vitality, and many other positives to our lives, so don't demonize climbing, or else you'll end up losing that too. Just be honest about your need to climb with anyone in the future, and really break down how it goes.

Hopefully you and your wife can ultimately find a common ground, but sorry if it doesn't happen. Heartbreak is never easy, especially if you feel guilty when doing something that brings some joy back.

Climbing’s risks and outlier culture attracts a lot of self absorbed narcs to whom relationships are little more than an extension of their own ego.  If their partner isn’t a clone of themselves, they can’t deal.

22 yrs of marriage - my 2c - that moment you think you have relationship problems and your partner is either involved in them or is the source and/or you’re contemplating couples therapy (aka pre divorce counseling) - look in the mirror and realize it’s really you, that it’s normal that you still have mommy and daddy issues - and that you need to go out on your own and get help with them and put in the work.  Both committing to their own growth = good partnerships.

Jkug Kug wrote:

Totally agree- climbing is different to a hobby. It is a passion and passions demand lots of time. Marriage should also be a passion but so often the partner feels that they rank behind climbing. Good luck to us all on this journey of trying to balance that which can’t be balanced except in rare circumstances 

What exactly do you think a hobby is and why is climbing different? Climbing is literally just a hobby unless you get paid to climb. It doesn't matter that it takes an inordinate amount of time compared to other hobbies, then again, ever tried learning an instrument? 

I could never find time for love. It's too heavy. It's an anchor that drowns a man.

Are you ready to spend the rest of your free time at the shopping mall looking at the latest fashions, or some dreamed up fake house project that just has to to be done?  If that’s ok, then stick it out, or go climbing and keep an eye out for your next ex-girlfriend/wife. 

There's a podcast by Steven Schleupner called "A Man's Journey Through Divorce". Give it a listen, maybe it will be helpful. Here's a link to Google Podcast:

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc3ByZWFrZXIuY29tL3Nob3cvNTA3ODQ3Ni9lcGlzb2Rlcy9mZWVk?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjD2oP6psP0AhUlCJ0JHXVsDKsQ9sEGegQIARAD

Mark B wrote:

I could never find time for love. It's too heavy. It's an anchor that drowns a man.

Never got the attraction for marriage. Passion is fine. Those unrequited high school crushes were a little devastating with hormones on overdrive, but fun when reciprocated. Good luck to the OP.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. Except we were both climbers. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way 

I’ll chime in to add I’ve ended a few relationships where climbing was a priority because climbing brought me far more of joy than the relationship did. I think that is, obviously, up to each individual. A lot of people stop climbing as frequently, or all together, because their relationship was more fun than climbing. I totally respect every individual who has chosen this either path. 

For me, personally, though I think if you are having more fun doing climbing than doing the relationship then ending that relationship has its warrants…especially if the relationship strains the fun of climbing. The crux is finding someone who either makes your passions more fun (without straining the relationship) or shares those passions with you. 

But also, like someone else said….get a dog. 

Some folks are ok living a non sexual life so they can climb more, its fairly normal until its not. I'm fairly sure nobody has reached anything close to nirvana while climbing but if it did happen it was probably in Thailand.

Now lets get back to relationship advice from 30 year old virgins.

Just commenting on the interesting observation (which could be explained in myriad ways) that those reporting they've been through the same thing are all men. Now I'm curious if any women climbers have been divorced by their non-climbing partners...

J P wrote:

Just commenting on the interesting observation (which could be explained in myriad ways) that those reporting they've been through the same thing are all men. Now I'm curious if any women climbers have been divorced by their non-climbing partners...

1)The majority of MP posters are men 

2) there are a lot fewer female climbers with nonclimbing spouses than there are male climbers with nonclimbing spouses.

I don’t know if these two things alone account for the discrepancy. There certainly have been posts in the past from climbing women struggling with various climbing-related issues with their non-climbing partners. I believe in one of these threads couple women have mentioned that this was a factor in breakup in their past. 

J P wrote:

Just commenting on the interesting observation (which could be explained in myriad ways) that those reporting they've been through the same thing are all men. Now I'm curious if any women climbers have been divorced by their non-climbing partners...

This conversation has been going for years:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/114393447/when-your-partner-isnt-your-partner-how-to-balance-climbing-in-a-relationship