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Getting divorced and climbing is a big reason why. Advice?

Matthew Jaggers · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 695
Mark Pilate wrote:

Matthew -  soft catch or no, I think your chances of belaying Heather dropped significantly with that second to last post.  

Soft catch. Im doing just fine, podge.

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,375
Matthew Jaggers wrote:

That sums up most every woman in that denial stage of every relationship ever. Fck Disney, Hallmark, and Sex in the City. They've corrupted the minds of all the women who live in a fictional reality (which is most that ive come across). The few women I know that are happy, content, and accepts their partner for who they are, are post menopause, 60+, and have no expectations. They also have financial security. 

When it all boils down, most women want financial security, and a trophy to brag about to their family and friends. Usually kids are the real trophy though, not the guy who helped make them. Moral of the story... if you want to be in a relationship that lasts (in the US), make a bunch of money, sadly.

Geez...nice job wrapping your own take on what I wrote and applying it in a huge broad swath to everyone else. 

There's so much in what you've written, here. I don't know where to start, and don't know if I want to spend time and energy on someone who is coming off as very very young. 

Sorry, I do try to reply, and keep the conversations going, but you're wearing me down. That's hard to do, so congratulations.

H.

JaredG · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 17
Old lady H wrote:

you're wearing me down. That's hard to do, so congratulations.



Kevin Worrall · · La Jolla, Ca · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 264

I don't know where to start, and don't know if I want to spend time and energy on someone who is coming off as very very young.

I dunno, MJ’s take is the product of experience, not naïveté, from what I’ve seen.

There are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, American women have unrealistic expectations, and are therefore rarely completely satisfied with their man.

“A man marries a woman thinking she’ll never change, a woman marries a man thinking she can change him”

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
Matthew Jaggers wrote:

Soft catch. Im doing just fine, podge.

Sure doesn't sound that way bub.

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
Kevin Worrall wrote:

I dunno, MJ’s take is the product of experience, not naïveté, from what I’ve seen.

There are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking, American women have unrealistic expectations, and are therefore rarely completely satisfied with their man.

“A man marries a woman thinking she’ll never change, a woman marries a man thinking she can change him”

You and Jaggers would be good drinking partners.

Kevin Worrall · · La Jolla, Ca · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 264

Probably so!

Mick Jagger could join us - I’m sure he’s got some experience with women to share…


“French girls they want Cartier, Italian girls want cars
American girls want everything in the world you can possibly imagine!”

F r i t z · · North Mitten · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 1,155
Matthew Jaggers wrote:

I would argue that Perfect Princes don't exist, 

Guapo Gote begs to differ.

Kevin Worrall · · La Jolla, Ca · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 264

!Es bien guapo, y se ve bien alegre!

¡Yo creo que sus chivas no quieren dinero, no más que la verga güey!

Channing Lai · · Hong Kong · Joined Sep 2015 · Points: 45

Outdoor climbing is one of the most time intensive activities I know. I have seen my friends either end relationships with non-climbers, or have to give up a lot of climbing time to appease the wife/partner. (It's almost always the husband being the climber, and the wife being unhappy about it.) After kids, outdoor climbing becomes even more difficult because the climber is basically ditching the family, having fun somewhere while the spouse is left with crazy exhausting kids. It's hard not to fill bitter. Especially if your spouse is a non-climber who relies on you for social life. Sometimes, when we hang with all our climber friends, I feel sorry for the non-climbing spouse who is stuck with us obsessed people who only talk about climbing. 

For me, I am the crazy climbing wife. My husband also climbs but I am definitely more crazy about it. After the kids were born, I was definitely experiencing FOMO when I saw all my friends (without kids) climbing but I had to stay and parent. But eventually you learn that your life isn't only live, eat, breath climbing and you make peace with that. 

Having said that, I still get out a lot. I manage to convince the husband to build a small home wall where we can climb after the kids are in bed on weekdays. During the season, I can sometimes do night bouldering sessions on weeknights. On weekends, we are lucky my parents happily watch the kids on Saturdays so we can go out to climb/ or he trail runs. Sunday is family day. Since having kids, I have started to go from bouldering 1-2x outdoors a year, to 75% boulder during the season. It's easy for me to boulder solo sessions at the local blocs or meet up with some crew but leave when I need to leave. Bouldering also wrecks you much faster so your sessions are much shorter. 

There's definitely arguments still of why I am always thinking about climbing. In the early days, I would nag him about climbing. Nowadays, if he doesn't want to climb, I don't force him. He can do his own thing, and I can do mine. 

But back on topic. I think climbing , like any time-intensive hobbies is likely to cause friction. Some guys/ladies like to game for 40h a week, I am sure the partners of those people feel lonely and left out too. Or people who train for Iron Man probably have lonely spouses too. I think at the end of the day, relationships are always about compromises for both parties. If both parties aren't able to compromise, then it's not really a workable relationship. 



Christopher Smith · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 0
F r i t z wrote:

R/unpopularopinions

Disney / romcoms : Womens' unrealistic expectations of men :: Pornhub : Men's unrealistic expectations of women

Totally agreed,. And sadly the second part has corrupted both men's and women's expectations.

Charlie B · · SLC, UT · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 0

I’ll say it again:Cclimbing is a jealous mistress. Make it a threesome.

Matthew Jaggers · · Red River Gorge · Joined Sep 2017 · Points: 695
F r i t z wrote:

Guapo Gote begs to differ.

I've never been more wrong!! True stud!

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Astrid Rey wrote:

Mark's story is so beautiful but the post above it says everything has a shelf life. I don't know what to believe!

Since I'm the one who said everything has a shelf life I'll note that all of us are going to die. Mark's story is beautiful and I'm thrilled for him and his spouse. They seem to be an example of young people who grew in tandem and in similar directions as they grew old. That happens, sometimes, and it's great. But it would also be okay if they experienced all that and then grew in different directions. It wouldn't negate anything of the prior years or experience, either. Nobody should avoid embracing the present because they fear that, down the road, things might shift or change. Everything is temporary. 

Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,375

Look, simple answer? 

Aim for respect, and friendship. Is this how you would treat that friend you've had all your life? The expectations you'd have, of your long term and closest friendships?

No?

Then you need to let that baggage go, and enjoy what you have with the people who give you way more than you "deserve", and, aim to be that person, in return. 

That's respect for others, and it's based first and foremost on respect for yourself. It can take a lifetime, which means right now is where to focus, not that vague future nirvana or hellish past.

Best, Helen

Mark Webster · · Tacoma · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 240

My forever climbing partner and I on top of Intersection Rock in 1980. Hexes and stoppers. My mom used to always tell me: "Mark, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Erroll M · · durham NC · Joined Nov 2021 · Points: 5

for anyone that remembers my previous comments in here before i deleted them....pour one out for me, please. feeling like you're losing one of the most important people in your life is one thing, but when it's someone that's been your primary climbing partner & is who got you into the sport, it hits differently.

Astrid Rey · · Lake Elsinore, CA · Joined Jun 2020 · Points: 0
Andrew Rice wrote:

Since I'm the one who said everything has a shelf life I'll note that all of us are going to die. Mark's story is beautiful and I'm thrilled for him and his spouse. They seem to be an example of young people who grew in tandem and in similar directions as they grew old. That happens, sometimes, and it's great. But it would also be okay if they experienced all that and then grew in different directions. It wouldn't negate anything of the prior years or experience, either. Nobody should avoid embracing the present because they fear that, down the road, things might shift or change. Everything is temporary. 

Geez... I understand that we all die but that doesn't mean everything is throwaway either. I don't believe family is temporary.

Mark Pilate · · MN · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 25
Astrid Rey wrote:

Geez... I understand that we all die but that doesn't mean everything is throwaway either. I don't believe family is temporary.

I didn’t take Senor Arroz’s post as implying anything (let alone everything) is throwaway.  I took it to mean, “it’s all good either way”.  As in don’t let the fear of “not perfection” or potential future changes impact your enjoyment and fulfillment of the here and now, and don’t let it retro-rate your past as some sort of failure.  Maybe I was wrong. But I embrace change as well as family is forever.   For example, Even though we grew apart in one respect, my ex-wife is still considered family and friends (by my family and friends) and we still share climbing -not to mention, kids.   This summer on a climbing trip, my girlfriend was belaying my ex-wife when a stranger (hiker) walked up and engaged us in conversation.  When she understood who was who there, she just said “ Wow! That’s super cool. And not very common” 

Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Astrid Rey wrote:

Geez... I understand that we all die but that doesn't mean everything is throwaway either. I don't believe family is temporary.

If that's what you read into my comment I'd urge to you re-read it (and the post prior to it) again a couple times. That's pretty much the OPPOSITE of what I am saying. Everything is precious and valuable. But also, life changes and things move and change in ways you can't imagine until it happens. And, still, life will continue on and be beautiful if you let it. My ex-wife will be family and very dear to me forever. Her extended family (my in-laws) will always be that way to me, too. And same toward her with my family of Origen. 

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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