Adding new routes to existing areas?

There are a few high quality routes I've come across in guide books that have not made their way onto their respective mountain project pages... I've added routes in the past but now I can't seem to figure out how to?  Has that function been disabled or moved or something?  

Thanks!

Unless you developed the routes or the area it’s common etiquette to not post it on mp. Do you think if the developers of that area wanted it on mountain project it would be there already? If you absolutely had to post something for internet cred maybe just plug into the comments there are more routes in Xyz’s guidebook. 

Put up your own routes and post away. 

Yup. Ask the developers/guidebook authors. There's a reason it's in a guidebook and not on MP, and it's not because they didn't have time. Why buy a guidebook when you can get it all on MP? 

inb4 this thread devolves into people saying guidebooks are theft and info should be free.

Kevin- I don’t think adding roots To MP is bad. Hell the whole place is information posted by people who were not The FAs. I see so many climbs not on MP. These holes make using MP difficult and causes people not to find the climb they were searching for. But make sure you climb the route first - before listing it.
And remember- nobody wants you to give away secrets.... (my advice is for popular area’s only)

Thanks for all the info everyone! 

Go to the sub-area. In the upper right hand corner click "Add To Page."

There is also a "Help" button at the bottom of the page where all your route-adding questions are answered.

So glad Warren Harding posted up the Nose. Otherwise I’d have to buy Sloans guide to find El Cap.

To OP, dude if it’s already a trafficked area, just post it up. It does people a favor in the long run. Example, new routes going up places. So here on the proj a lot of route descriptions basically say, “furthest left line” or “next route over from melting plutonium”. When a new route doesn’t get added and you hop on “Chernobyl” 5.11R instead of “beginners guide to radiation sickness” 5.8, it’s kinda just a drag for everyone who’s new to the area.

Jeff Luton endorses posting that shit

Lyle M wrote:

Unless you developed the routes or the area it’s common etiquette to not post it on mp. Do you think if the developers of that area wanted it on mountain project it would be there already? If you absolutely had to post something for internet cred maybe just plug into the comments there are more routes in Xyz’s guidebook. 

A lot of areas predate mountain project and were not put up by people who used computers everyday. If 80% of an areas routes are on mountain project I would say the missing routes are laziness. If 0% of routes are on mountain project then that might be the intention.

Kevin Miller wrote:

...high quality routes I've come across in guide books...

The rule of thumb is don't post climbs you haven't done yourself. You'd just be plagiarizing.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

A lot of areas predate mountain project and were not put up by people who used computers everyday. If 80% of an areas routes are on mountain project I would say the missing routes are laziness. If 0% of routes are on mountain project then that might be the intention.

I know at least one entire area that was put up 100% by people having nothing to do with the place and hear constant bemoaning about it from the developer. I doubt it’s a lone example. 

Absolutely nothing wrong posting routes you didn't put up. 

But, you better do a good job if you do. 

Too many people post routes that either have - bad descriptions, insufficient descriptions, etc. 

Frankly, I think MP is a great resource, but as a crowd-sourced route data-base, it is wildly inconsistent. Personally, using MP as a primary source of route info is foolhardy, since you don't know who posted the info and even if it is correct. Unfortunately, I've seen the results of climbers blindly relying on MP and getting into trouble.

Lyle M wrote:

I know at least one entire area that was put up 100% by people having nothing to do with the place and hear constant bemoaning about it from the developer. I doubt it’s a lone example. 

Yes but you obviously consider what has been done historically. I don't think you can blindly say put nothing on mountain project or put everything on mountain project, it's entirely contextual. An area with 0% of its routes on mountain project, you should probably not post it to mountain project. An area with 80% of its routes on mountain project, probably not a bad idea to add them to mountain project. 

You should not post it.

 MP started as a community based route guide, and resource for the community with broad support from the community. I saw it as a compliment to the local guidebook, and a way to get info out about new places.

 
Then MP sold the database that the community built to REI, converting our community built resource into a profit seeking enterprise. It became competition to guide book authors, and your altruistic posting to help spread info became unpaid labor for your MP overlords to profit off of. At this point some people decided they did not want their contributions being used commercially and started removing their contributions. At which point MP stripped us of the ability to edit or delete our contributions, further hardening and emphasizing the “we own and will sell your contributions weather you like it or not attitude” that I find so offensive.

But the flip side it that now everyone knows what time it is, and as a result many people have decided not to add anything further to the database.

I will still sometimes add a new route to MP if at a popular area already on MP due to the concern you expressed about completeness and ease of navigation at the crag.

But, I will only give topo’s to new areas to people in a 1-1 setting either in person or via email and only if I trust them to keep it off MP.

If it is a new route let the FA/developer decide if they want it on MP. If it is an old route then is will probably be in the guidebook, so don’t add it.

Use the machine for all its worth but don’t become a cog!

Nick- good post. I think you hit the nail squarely.

I must laugh at the whole “we worked for free to help someone make a guidebook- to make money- off of our labor” 

Think about this for a second. Guidebook authors never make much money from the guides. -I personally know several of them.

BITD - when my friends and I would climb something new - I would sit down and write a long letter complete with a photo or two about the climb and mail it off to the GB author so it could be included in the next edition. Did I feel the need to be compensated for my labor? No- all I ever wished for was that my name was spelled correctly lol. 

MP is nothing more than an electric GB. I doubt that Nick makes a living off of this. I know C Mac didn’t make money from the Taco - so he closed it down.

 It’s the bait and switch that is frustrating.

 I know no guidebook author is getting rich. Many guidebook authors have, and some still do add routes to MP. But contributing to a community crowdsourced guidebook is different from producing the primary content/product of/for a corporate entity free of charge...

Similarly I am much more inclined to volunteer for the ASCA or Access Fund than I am for Wal-Mart.

If MtnProj were to convert to a non-profit climbing advocacy org I would contribute with less reservation.

Also by sending your route descriptions to your local GB author you are fostering your local community, strengthening your personal network, and helping to ensure that a “local guidebook author” continues to even exists. Contributing to MP does not foster these local connections and may even push some of them out of existence.

It would be a loss for climbing if climbing culture were to become a single homogenized national culture versus a web of interconnected local areas/cultures. 

Another thing I’d like to add.

Mountain project is great for cross referencing. Guidebooks get updated eventually. That doesn’t mean the copy you have in your hand has the route that went up last year. So you go to a crag with your guidebook that says there are 9 routes on such and such wall. Take a look at mountain project and there’s 13. I’ve already said most beta on the proj says left most line or right of such n such. Having your guidebook give you a solid topo to get a base to find what the hell the proj is even talking about. And from there you can piece together what goes where. Draw your new updated topo in your guide for the missing lines, and everything is fine and dandy.

When the new guide comes out, if you can afford it, support the author.

The proj is also great for current conditions of a line. The comments at the bottom of a route are almost the single most valuable thing about this site. Example. Went to do a sport line in the guidebook the other day. About 5 comments down is a comment saying something along the lines of, all the bolts got chopped but two but the line still goes with gear. Priceless beta.

If there isn’t a single route from the crag you’re considering posting, don’t post it.

If half the lines are, post the rest and just do everybody the favor because the cats already out of the bag.

Jeff Luton wrote:

If half the lines are, post the rest and just do everybody the favor because the cats already out of the bag.

If the original developer posted them and then there are more routes over time sure... But if some  newb is just posting an area for internet cred without understanding that an area might not be able to support a high influx of people. Then do not add more unless you personally put up an FA. No one can own the crag, but there are reasons such as access issues and environmental impacts on an area that area it’s self and all it’s routes may not be posted.

cross reference the guidebook for FAs at that spot with who posted it on mountain project for guidance.  

Lyle M wrote:

 No one can own the crag

Post 'em if you've climbed 'em.

Daniel Chode Rider wrote:

Post 'em if you've climbed 'em.

They’re in the guidebook. 

Lyle M wrote:

They’re in the guidebook. 

Well, not everyone wants to buy a guidebook. Yet in a guidebook you'll get higher quality beta than you will here. It's a tradeoff.