.

no 

You're not even going to try to make an argument that they aren't first? 1/10

Senor Arroz wrote: You're not even going to try to make an argument that they aren't first? 1/10

R   ental   E   quiptment   I  ncorporated  for 12 months!!  No questions asked.

REI is corporate AF.  Their whole...vote for the board of directors...but only candidates we choose...and we only choose one...is so !? slimy.

I have a weird relationship with that company. On the one hand I feel like they do try to do good things for the community--buying MP for example, donating money to various outdoor causes, etc.--but also that their large amount of market share has the effect of crowding out smaller gear stores. Some of their locations also have a serious lack of expertise in accordance of the common activities of the area (I dare you to try to talk to the staff about trad climbing in the Washington DC REI) but in general I feel like there's at least one person in each department who knows their shit reasonably well. I've also met a decent amount of park rangers (both state and national) who are employed by REI in the wintertime and shoulder seasons to sell ski gear and patagonia nano-puffs to the masses, so I appreciate employing rangers at least.

That said, if I'm going to eschew steep and cheap or campsaver and pay full price for something, it's going to be at a local shop if I can help it. 

Well, they may be giant and "corporate AF", but they are legally incorporated as a member owned co-operative and do not have shareholders or publicly traded stock.  Which allows them flexibility not afforded to many publicly traded companies, for example, to treat their employees well (based on my now somewhat dated experience from 2009-2015).

Brassmonkey wrote: Off topic Sean.  I said they aren't a co-op.  Tell me how they are.

no

Did they move beyond their relatively recently criticized practise of requiring employees to sign up as many new members as possible or else...?

On topic: my understanding is that REI follows the letter of the law in what is required of them to maintain their co-op status.

Philip Magistro wrote: Well, they may be giant and "corporate AF", but they are legally incorporated as a member owned co-operative and do not have shareholders or publicly traded stock.  Which allows them flexibility not afforded to many publicly traded companies, for example, to treat their employees well (based on my now somewhat dated experience from 2009-2015).

This ^.

You might take issue with their prices or their fancy stores or whatever. Seems you're confusing ownership structure and management with a particular kind of look and feel. But, yeah, they are definitely owned by their membership. If you disagree, go try to trade some REI stock or locate the big industrial titan who controls them. 

I didn't have to pay to join.  And I usually get about 10% of what I purchased from them.  
Not a bad deal.  (I do shop indie shops too). . .

The vocal negative minority bias is especially present on online forums, so I'd like to offer a counterpoint to yet another seemingly negative thread about REI.

It seems to me as though a lot of the dislike for REI comes from the two ends of the outdoor spectrum. The first being the very entry level, who have an extremely limited knowledge-base about their chosen activity/the gear and knowledge it requires, and therefore tend to feel that most of the products sold at REI are overpriced because they can find significantly cheaper products at Amazon/Walmart/etc. In many cases those products are significantly less expensive due to lower quality materials, misleading specs, less R&D, less attention to detail, etc. But the entry level customer typically doesn't know enough to fully grasp the minutiae of products, or really even care about them. And yes, there are also a lot of cases where the products from big name brands can legitimately be considered overpriced, especially when considering the performance level someone just getting into a given outdoor activity requires.

The second end of the spectrum that seems to have a lot of hate or distaste for REI is the ]advanced/expert side. And I've seen it through just about every outdoor activity that REI carries products for, climbing, backpacking, paddling, cycling, running, you name it. And I think the reason for this is two-fold and they relate closely to one another. First, many in this category are loathe to see their smaller, more specialized gear shops and cottage retailers fold under the pressure of a larger national retailer with the margins to support a difficult-to-match return policy. And two, when many of these experienced/advanced users have gone into REI to try and talk gear or get beta from one of the "specialists" that work there, they have been frustrated by the employee's lack of knowledge on the subject of their passion, understandably leading to feelings of anger towards the store as a whole.

I think that what advanced users who are frustrated by this phenomenon fail to take into account, is that there simply arent enough people who are experts, or at least gear nerds, in the all of the outdoor sports and activities that REI carries products for, who are willing to work retail (read here: answer where the bathroom is literally 30 times every shift, get non-replies/dirty looks/hurriedly told no they dont need help when for all the world it looks like they could use it, get to actually outfit and get stoked with someone who is just getting into the sport or activity maybe 5 out of every 50 customers - varies by store and dept - and actually get to nerd out with someone by getting into the technical details of the differences between PE and PU coatings on nylon vs polyester, or why some brands use a certain alloy on microcams vs larger cams and how their stem and trigger mechanisms interact in various orientations or anything else you can think of that isnt actually necessary or pertinent to explain to the average-level consumer and will only serve to confuse them, that knowledge that took an inordinate amount of time to collect and compile through research and experience only gets pulled out maaaybe once in every 500 customer interactions.) and can cover every shift in each department. I've also noticed that the level of knowledge/engagement/initiative you can expect from a sales associate varies widely by store and the knowledgeable passionate ones have a tendency to be concentrated together. For example, there are 3 REI's near my house, and they all have very distinct personalities as far as the types of people that happen to work at them, and while there are knowledgeable and expert people at each of the locations, one location has a marked advantage in employees who really know their products/sport inside and out and want to share it with customers. But even at that store, there are maybe one or two per department who can go as deep into the minutiae as you want to, and the simple fact is that employees with varying lower levels of knowledge and experience are going to be on the floor a higher percentage of the time, and therefore are more likely to interact with you the customer, because they outnumber the knowledgeable ones by a lot.  

It sucks for the advanced users (who want someone that they can talk gear and experiences with on a deeper level) that the highly knowledgeable employees aren't always working or available, but I think that it's unfair for advanced users to judge REI so harshly (as a greedy, bumbling, corporate conglomerate that doesnt have the interests of it's members at heart) based on what seems to be the couple interactions with "clueless" sales associates who are are likely able to point REI's target market (mid-level users, or beginners who are willing to invest) in the right direction, but can't hold a candle to the years of knowledge and passion that advanced users have built up. Also yes, I can attest that there are some legitimately clueless sales associates on the floor who have no business, in my eyes, trying to help customers decide which product will work best for them, because they, the employee, haven't experienced the differences for themselves. I reckon you get a certain amount of those employees in any profession or business that a driven and passionate manager/owner cant oversee most aspects of directly at all times. What can ya do.

This is just how I see things and I realize I might be way off-base with my interpretations, so I'm more than happy to discuss and hear from y'all who hold negative (or positive!) views on the Co-Op and why that is :)

Brassmonkey wrote: Off topic Sean.  I said they aren't a co-op.  Tell me how they are.

This might be easier if you tell us how they are not a co-op.

And yes, they did move away from membership sign-ups being tied to performance statistics, advancement, job security, etc. Largely from the backlash to the policy during the reddit AMA with the CEO several years ago, but also from various internal conversations that made their way up the chain

Ben M wrote: And yes, they did move away from membership sign-ups being tied to performance statistics, advancement, job security, etc. Largely from the backlash to the policy during the reddit AMA with the CEO several years ago, but also from various internal conversations that made their way up the chain

That's good to hear!

And it explains why in all my visits there in the past few years I wasn't repeatedly approached by staff asking if I was a member, contrast that the to years before. For the record I have been a member for over a decade.

Sean Post wrote:

That said, if I'm going to eschew steep and cheap or campsaver and pay full price for something, it's going to be at a local shop if I can help it. 

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

Are you implying that steep and cheep is local? Because they are owned by Backcountry (am I in trouble for even writing “backcountry”?)

es·chew
/əsˈCHo͞o,iˈSHo͞o/
verb

1. deliberately avoid using; abstain from.
   

Marc801 C wrote: es·chew
/əsˈCHo͞o,iˈSHo͞o/
verb

1. deliberately avoid using; abstain from.
   

I eschewed commenting on that one myself.

My local natural foods co-op requires a membership fee to join ($90!) and for that you get 5% off one order per month.  Given they're more of a Whole Foods competitor the prices are much higher than the local Cub Foods, but that's to be expected.  Are they also not a co-op?

REI has become distanced from their membership as they have grown and no longer serve their older core members very well. However, they are somewhat of a co-op. Darin nailed it up thread^^^^. The members no longer vote their candidates. It's more like a communist country where they tell you who you can vote for.

I've bought thousands of $$ from REI over the years but I no longer buy from them, at all. In fact, the last purchase in order to avoid them I paid more money to get running shoes from Zappos. (Brooks Adreneline GTs, - REI sale $90, Zappos $95 -probably paid freight as well but have forgotten). Worth it to me to not support REI financially. F them. I stopped all purchases when they cut off Vista Outdoors. Virtue signalling pricks- F* em all.

Darin Berdinka wrote: REI is corporate AF.  Their whole...vote for the board of directors...but only candidates we choose...and we only choose one...is so !? slimy.

^^^ This part ^^^

Senor Arroz wrote: You're not even going to try to make an argument that they aren't first? 1/10

you’re not even going to put the title into the meme?

0/10