Dave K wrote:

We often hear complaints that their executives are overcompensated but they are compensated because they are employees, not because they hold a piece of paper that represents a claim on the assets and profits of the company.

People who claim that the CEO of a chain of nearly 200 stores plus online and mail order with more than $2 billion in revenue is "overpaid" because they make a couple million in salary clearly have no idea the skills it take to run a massive business like that and the value a good CEO adds. Also,
https://www.adventure-journal.com/2020/04/rei-ceo-forgoes-salary-brand-furloughs-staff-in-belt-tightening/

Ben M wrote:...cottage retailers fold under the pressure of a larger national retailer with the margins to support a difficult-to-match return policy...

You almost touched on my beef with REI.  REI managed to dominate the market in part with its ridiculously lax return policy, then changed that policy to a stricter one once it had a dominant position.  This clear-cut case of anti-competitive behavior is bad for consumers and should be illegal under anti-trust laws (which our pro-corporate government has consistently failed to enforce).

Senor Arroz wrote:

This ^.

You might take issue with their prices or their fancy stores or whatever. Seems you're confusing ownership structure and management with a particular kind of look and feel. But, yeah, they are definitely owned by their membership. If you disagree, go try to trade some REI stock or locate the big industrial titan who controls them. 

You have misunderstood the definition of a co-op.  The local restaurant down the street from me is not publically traded and not controlled by big industry.  But they are also not a co-op.

Marc801 C wrote: /əsˈCHo͞o,iˈSHo͞o/

 Gesundheit.

Eric D wrote:

You have misunderstood the definition of a co-op.  The local restaurant down the street from me is not publically traded and not controlled by big industry.  But they are also not a co-op.

No. I haven't. I very clearly understand that REI is member owned. Which is what makes it a co-op. And my post reflected that.

My insurance company is USAA. It's got $30 BILLION a year in revenue. The CEO makes $4.2 million dollars a year. It has 12 million members who own the company collectively. It's one of the best companies I've ever dealt with. But people there definitely wear suits and act like corporate underwriters and accountants and all that. Co-ops aren't just hippie food markets.

How REI’s Co-op Retail Model Helps Its Bottom Line - The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/rei-jerry-stritzke-interview/520278/

REI is most definitely a co-op. REI is also most definitely a corporation and largely runs like a corporation. So you're all right. On the newswires today:

REI Co-op has announced a reopening plan for its 162 stores and customer-facing services, as states begin to open limited outdoor activities.
To start, the specialty outdoor retailer will begin offering curbside pick-up at more than half of its stores across the country this week and will launch zero-contact bike shop services in select locations. It hopes to have curbside open in time for its Anniversary Sale, slated for May 15-25.
The co-op will also begin opening its stores to customers, beginning with three stores in Montana. Beyond the ramp-up of its physical retail, the co-op has been actively developing additional ways to serve members, including virtual events and gatherings, a pilot program for virtual outfitting, and an updated returns process. Those services will begin rolling out in select stores during the coming weeks.
"I'm writing to share some good news," wrote Eric Artz, REI president and CEO, in a letter to members on May 12, 2020. "After two months of temporary closures, this week we will begin reopening our stores—just in time to celebrate our 82nd anniversary. In some places 'opening' will mean curbside service. In others, our doors will open for a limited number of customers. In every case, we'll be taking precautions to ensure the health and safety of our employees, customers and communities."

@Billcoe, how much have you read about the Vista Outdoors situation? Because I feel like that specifically is a really good example of REI being a model Co-Op, in that they listened to their members and responded to opinions voiced by members. Basically some members kicked up a stink about Vista Outdoors having divisions related to firearms during the spate of gun violence and protests and counter-protests, so REI leadership reached out to VO and asked for them to make a statement about their views, that's all. Not asking them to change marketing or sell off divisions or take a political stance one way or the other, just asking for a statement on what they thought about the situation. VO declined to make any statement at all (and from what I understand refused to even take calls or talk directly to REI leadership, not 100% on that though) so REI responded to their member's wishes and stopped carrying VO brands and products. Interestingly enough, now VO has decided to sell off it's firearms divisions/holdings and REI has restocked them, again responding to customers who were disappointed to see those VO brands leave.

Regardless of your political stance or how you feel about the issue, it seems like REI didnt do as anything unreasonable from their position as a Co-OP. If you dont agree with their stance and how they handled it, then of course it's your prerogative to take your business elsewhere, but the "f*** em all, they're all virtue signaling" seems misplaced. Of course there are people who are members of REI who engage in toxic virtue signaling, but there are also plenty of people who are members who dont agree with that line of thinking.

Ben M wrote: @Billcoe, how much have you read about the Vista Outdoors situation? Because I feel like that specifically is a really good example of REI being a model Co-Op, in that they listened to their members and responded to opinions voiced by members. Basically some members kicked up a stink about Vista Outdoors having divisions related to firearms during the spate of gun violence and protests and counter-protests, so REI leadership reached out to VO and asked for them to make a statement about their views, that's all. Not asking them to change marketing or sell off divisions or take a political stance one way or the other, just asking for a statement on what they thought about the situation. VO declined to make any statement at all (and from what I understand refused to even take calls or talk directly to REI leadership, not 100% on that though) so REI responded to their member's wishes and stopped carrying VO brands and products. Interestingly enough, now VO has decided to sell off it's firearms divisions/holdings and REI has restocked them, again responding to customers who were disappointed to see those VO brands leave.

Regardless of your political stance or how you feel about the issue, it seems like REI didnt do as anything unreasonable from their position as a Co-OP. If you dont agree with their stance and how they handled it, then of course it's your prerogative to take your business elsewhere, but the "f*** em all, they're all virtue signaling" seems misplaced. Of course there are people who are members of REI who engage in toxic virtue signaling, but there are also plenty of people who are members who dont agree with that line of thinking.

There are 2 issues for me. 1st) I disagree 100 percent with people who are anti-gun. This is a huge issue for me. If REI wants to become ploitical, then they will lose anyone who doesn't agree with that issue. In this instance, me. 

2nd) Products. Giro makes the best price performance Bike helmets. Consumer reports has the 2nd highest rated helmet as a Giro, and not too costly either. Try and get one from REI. Camelbak all but invented that product, great product: not sold. Etc etc If REI wants to be the virtue signaling arbiter of what outdoor products I can by, they're not looking out for me, F em. 

@Jared I disagree that the change in return policy was for competitive reasons. REI started out very similarly to a lot of mom and pop retailers, i.e. small scale with a conscientious customer base who have a connection to the store/company and therefore were much less likely to abuse the very generous return policy. As the company grew and added members, some of those members, and especially customers who weren't members, didnt have as much of a connection to the company and community, and therefore began to abuse the policy past all point of reason, i.e. returning 20 year old tents, 5 year old boots with 3000 miles on them, etc. As the company continued to grow these incidences of dishonest returns began to impact the business to the point that the Co-Op felt that the return policy was unbalanced in a way that no longer was best for their members (cant keep prices low and availability high for members if you're constantly eating the cost of unreasonable returns), so they updated the return policy to try and mitigate the most egregious of the offenders, while still remaining a good value for their members. The fact that it appears that they made the change as they achieved market dominance is more correlation than causation, since the scope of unreasonable returns increases at a rate commensurate with market share. People still abuse the policy of course, but a year satisfaction guarantee is still the most generous return policy that I'm aware of and it allows the Co-Op to keep prices low and value high for its members. 

Dear God y’all are bored.

Billcoe wrote:
Giro makes the best price performance Bike helmets. Try and get one from REI

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but here's the product page for them?

https://www.rei.com/b/giro/c/bike-helmets

Ben M wrote:
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but here's the product page for them?

https://www.rei.com/b/giro/c/bike-helmets

Thanks Ben, didn't know they started carrying them again. What happened to the virtue signalling? Did it go away and I missed it as I walked away as a customer?  I see they now have Camelbak in stock as well. 

Billcoe wrote:
There are 2 issues for me. 1st) I disagree 100 percent with people who are anti-gun. This is a huge issue for me. If REI wants to become ploitical, then they will lose anyone who doesn't agree with that issue. In this instance, me.

2nd) Products. Giro makes the best price performance Bike helmets. Consumer reports has the 2nd highest rated helmet as a Giro, and not too costly either. Try and get one from REI. Camelbak all but invented that product, great product: not sold. Etc etc If REI wants to be the virtue signaling arbiter of what outdoor products I can by, they're not looking out for me, F em. 

And you're 100% entitled to hold those views. If that's your line in the sand and you feel that it's been crossed, like I said, it's your prerogative to take your business elsewhere and no one should try to stop you, REI as a business certainly won't. 

I just think that there is a lot of misinformation out there and want to make sure that people have all of the information so that they can make their own informed decisions, based on whatever criteria they select.

I dont think the business is virtue signaling, it is just responding to members who made their viewpoints and desires known, as a Co-Op is designed to do. And like I said in the above post, VO brands are now available again through REI because members like yourself, who valued Giro and CamelBak, made their voices heard.

Any co-op can't look out for your interests if you dont give them feedback and then the opportunity/time to act on said feedback.

Not trying to convince you to change your stance and shop at REI, just trying to get the information out there, do with it what you will. If you still feel like F*** em, that's fine, just don't feel that way for spurious reasons

No worries man, I know there's a lot of information flying around and it's hard to keep track of, especially when big announcements arent made about it.

Not sure what you mean by any specific virtue signaling, all I can say about that is that there are some members who do it and some who dont and I dont think that the company can be held responsible for that. That being said, the Co-Op does have a set of strongly held core values that you can see on the website, and while in my reading of them, I dont think that any of them are in conflict with the values you've expressed in this thread, if you read through them and find them to be virtue signaling or otherwise in conflict with your principles to the point that you arent interested in giving them your business, again, that's totally your choice and prerogative. Thanks for the civil conversation!

Billcoe wrote:

Thanks Ben, didn't know they started carrying them again. What happened to the virtue signalling? Did it go away and I missed it as I walked away as a customer?  I see they now have Camelbak in stock as well. 

Vista Outdoors divested itself of the company that made semi-automatic rifles, which were the product that so many REI members wanted no association with. 

Brassmonkey wrote: Change my mind.

I don't care.

Change my mind.

Billcoe wrote:

Thanks Ben, didn't know they started carrying them again. What happened to the virtue signalling? Did it go away and I missed it as I walked away as a customer?  I see they now have Camelbak in stock as well. 

You didn't keep up with the news.

The boycott worked. Vista Outdoors got rid of the gun brands, so the outdoor gear companies that dropped the brand's under the Vista Outdoors umbrella started to carry those brands once again.

Billcoe wrote:
There are 2 issues for me. 1st) I disagree 100 percent with people who are anti-gun. This is a huge issue for me. If REI wants to become ploitical, then they will lose anyone who doesn't agree with that issue. In this instance, me.

2nd) Products. Giro makes the best price performance Bike helmets. Consumer reports has the 2nd highest rated helmet as a Giro, and not too costly either. Try and get one from REI. Camelbak all but invented that product, great product: not sold. Etc etc If REI wants to be the virtue signaling arbiter of what outdoor products I can by, they're not looking out for me, F em. 

?? Both Giro and Camelback products are shown on the REI website. I’ve personally purchased a Camelback at REI in the last ~1-2 years. What am I missing?

https://www.rei.com/search?q=Giro
https://www.rei.com/search?q=camelbak

Ah, read the previous post. Now I get it. Osprey hydration packs are much better anyway. 

It's a definitional argument. Only interesting in like, freshman composition.

I don't consider it a co-op in any meaningful way. But I'm not emotionally involved enough to argue that it isn't technically a co-op due to the dividend nonsense.