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Buck Rio · · MN · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 16

I would be super happy to NEVER hear the term "virtue signaling" again.  Every time I hear someone say or write it, I have to strangle a kitty. 

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Buck Rio wrote: I would be super happy to NEVER hear the term "virtue signaling" again.  Every time I hear someone say or write it, I have to strangle a kitty. 

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/stop-saying-virtue-signalling

"As popular as it is, it’s a stupid term that misuses the concepts it invokes, it encourages lazy thinking, and it’s hypocritical."
Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Blue Collar Climbing wrote:
I don't consider it a co-op in any meaningful way. 

Honest question: What are the things that would make it a co-op in a meaningful way to you?

I'm old enough to remember going to the old Berkeley REI and sorting through giant shipping crates of sleeping bags, boots, etc. looking for great deals. I loved that place and its vibe. 

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
Marc801 C wrote:

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/stop-saying-virtue-signalling

For something to actually be virtue signalling, rather than just showing off, it would need some sort of sacrifice,

So isn't Billcoe's usage here correct? REI did stop carrying Vista Outdoor brand stuff, presumably suffered the cost of lost business (I bought Camelbak bottles elsewhere). It wasn't just all talks. In the end, VO seems to be the one that folded by selling their firearms business last year (and thus their stuff back to REI).
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
reboot wrote: For something to actually be virtue signalling, rather than just showing off, it would need some sort of sacrifice,

So isn't Billcoe's usage here correct? REI did stop carrying Vista Outdoor brand stuff, presumably suffered the cost of lost business (I bought Camelbak bottles elsewhere). It wasn't just all talks. In the end, VO seems to be the one that folded by selling their firearms business last year (and thus their stuff back to REI).

Shit, I don't know. The post was more of a comment on the term rather than Billcoe's usage.

t.farrell · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 60
Princess Puppy Lovr · · Rent-n, WA · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 1,756
Darin Berdinka wrote: REI is corporate AF.  Their whole...vote for the board of directors...but only candidates we choose...and we only choose one...is so !? slimy.

Have you ever worked for a company that was managed by a board of directors? It can actually hard to find people because the compensation often isn't great trade off for time (it might be at REI). Generally companies have to drag some industry expert out of retirement that is so removed from the process that you have to oversimplify every problem to them while screaming because they have lost 90% of their hearing. Having members on the board who do not understand the product or whats going on creates significant delays so having the corporation appoint people is most efficient. The issue is not unique to REI; for profit public, mutual, employee owned or non-profit companies all experience this problem. 

Khoi · · Vancouver, BC · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 50
Trevor Taylor wrote:

Have you ever worked for a company that was managed by a board of directors? It can actually hard to find people because the compensation often isn't great trade off for time (it might be at REI). Generally companies have to drag some industry expert out of retirement that is so removed from the process that you have to oversimplify every problem to them while screaming because they have lost 90% of their hearing. Having members on the board who do not understand the product or whats going on creates significant delays so having the corporation appoint people is most efficient. The issue is not unique to REI; for profit public, mutual, employee owned or non-profit companies all experience this problem. 

My understanding was that a Board of Directors position is one of the most overpaid jobs in society, often a 6-figure income for what amounts to a few weeks of work a year, and most of that "work" is going to meetings. That job takes up so little time that people on a Board of Directors are often CEOs of other organizations, and/or sit on multiple Boards - that's how little time that job takes up! Given that the Board decides how much compensation the CEO gets, and said Board is often made up of CEOs of other organizations... nope! No conflict of interest there! Can you imagine if you had a class in college where your final was graded by people in the other class, and vice versa? 

I attended an AGM for a co-op where the CEO was trying to push through a special resolution to give people on the Board a massive raise (in order to attract more corporate types...) and the "consultant" hired to plead this case with the co-op members in attendance said, "These people work sooo hard! There's even 2 weeks a year where they work full time!"

EDIT: And, yes, I do work for a company that is managed by a Board of Directors
Blue Collar Climbing · · Gear Protected Lowball · Joined Jan 2020 · Points: 0
Senor Arroz wrote:

Honest question: What are the things that would make it a co-op in a meaningful way to you?

I'm old enough to remember going to the old Berkeley REI and sorting through giant shipping crates of sleeping bags, boots, etc. looking for great deals. I loved that place and its vibe. 

This is a great question tbh and I wanted to actually think on it for a bit--

1. Any meaningful input in the governance or decision making process. I think technically I can vote in some capacity for REI, but it seems like a token thing. I could be wrong about that.
2. A membership structure in which membership is an investment (usually annual fee, but other models exist) that I can then get a return on by using the group leverage of the co-op. REI memberships really feel like a loyalty card a la Autozone or whatnot, especially as they frequently have specials where you get a 20 dollar gift card when you sign up for a 20 dollar membership.
3. Access to the pipeline of goods at a "higher" level than a consumer. For example, in my experience with food co-ops, I can order from a distributor's catalog and have it shipped to my Co-op, even if they don't normally carry that item. REI may offer that, but if so it's not a central pillar of the consumer experience there, to my knowledge.

None of these are things that can necessarily be implemented at the scale of a national retailer like what REI has grown into--and it may all be issues of perception! I still have a membership and shop there on occasion, but it's rarely my first choice.
Andrew Rice · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 11
Khoi wrote:

My understanding was that a Board of Directors position is one of the most overpaid job in society, often a 6-figure income for what amounts to a few weeks of work a year, and most of that "work" is going to meetings. That job takes up so little time that people on a Board of Directors are often CEOs of other organizations, and/or sit on multiple Boards - that's how little time that job takes up! Given that the Board decides how much compensation the CEO gets, and said Board is often made up of CEOs of other organizations... nope! No conflict of interest there! Can you imagine if you had a class in college where your final was graded by people in the other class, and vice versa? 

I attended an AGM for a co-op where the CEO was trying to push through a special resolution to give people on the Board a massive raise (in order to attract more corporate types...) and the "consultant" hired to plead this case with the co-op members in attendance said, "These people work sooo hard! There's even 2 weeks a year where they work full time!"

True, all of this. Board Members, though, are typically chosen either for particular INFLUENCE (ie. why you see a lot of former Cabinet Officers and members of Congress on big corporate boards) or because of specialized knowledge. And, of course, being loyal to the CEO is a particularly sought-after trait. 

Princess Puppy Lovr · · Rent-n, WA · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 1,756
Khoi wrote:

My understanding was that a Board of Directors position is one of the most overpaid jobs in society, often a 6-figure income for what amounts to a few weeks of work a year, and most of that "work" is going to meetings. That job takes up so little time that people on a Board of Directors are often CEOs of other organizations, and/or sit on multiple Boards - that's how little time that job takes up! Given that the Board decides how much compensation the CEO gets, and said Board is often made up of CEOs of other organizations... nope! No conflict of interest there! Can you imagine if you had a class in college where your final was graded by people in the other class, and vice versa? 

I attended an AGM for a co-op where the CEO was trying to push through a special resolution to give people on the Board a massive raise (in order to attract more corporate types...) and the "consultant" hired to plead this case with the co-op members in attendance said, "These people work sooo hard! There's even 2 weeks a year where they work full time!"

EDIT: And, yes, I do work for a company that is managed by a Board of Directors

Well that changes my view just the boards I interact with make 4 figures for companies that make less than 100 million. Is there a way to look of boards salaries? I only know because of unique expense codes for my job.

mat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 4
Trevor Taylor wrote:

Well that changes my view just the boards I interact with make 4 figures for companies that make less than 100 million. Is there a way to look of boards salaries? I only know because of unique expense codes for my job.

https://www.rei.com/about-rei/executive-compensation

https://www.rei.com/assets/about-rei/executive-compensation/2020-cda-for-2019-results_final/live.pdf
Robert S · · Driftwood, TX · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 661

Sweet, we finally have a thread bitching about REI!

Someone please work in dogs and music at the crags as well. It's long past time that we had a discussion about these things.

C Limenski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 15

The final straw that certainly shook REI from hip outdoorsy co-op grandeur into the chaff of corporate conglomerates was undoubtably that step into the markets “outdoor audio” and “dog gear”.

What outrageous buffoons! They forgot that the common thread holding all of us lovers of the outdoors together, from yoga class to summit Sunday, was an unbridled and intense hatred for dogs. And music.

Wait.

I forgot.

We just hate each other. Carry on.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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