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Tie in knots


Original Post
Tyler Newcomb · · Burlington · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 86

Figure 8? Figure 9? Bowline with Yosemite finish?

What tie in knot do you use and why?

David Kerkeslager · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Jan 2017 · Points: 127

For sport climbing where it's likely I'll fall, I use a double bowline with a double overhand finishing knot on the loop, because it doesn't bind up if I fall.

Everything else, figure 8 retrace. It's easy, reliable, and all my partners can check it.

Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

Something that does not come undone.  The big plus for the figure 8 is it is easy to check that it is tied correctly and everyone knows what it looks like.   Many folks would have no clue if a double bowline is tied correctly.

Tyler Newcomb · · Burlington · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 86

I definitely agree with the universality of the 8.

If your partner could check any knot, which would you prefer?

John Wilder · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Feb 2004 · Points: 1,535

Fig-8 with a Yosemite finish.

If you've got partners that can check a bowline, go for it, but it's been my experience that basically everyone I've ever seen use one flies solo with checking their knot or has me check it. 

Jon Rhoderick · · Redmond, OR · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 865

If you find your figure 8 hard to untie, you’re tying it wrong

Paul Allen · · Mesa, AZ · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 10
Jon Rhoderick wrote: If you find your figure 8 hard to untie, you’re tying it wrong

Not sure I understand. Can you clarify?

Pete Spri · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 286
Paul Allen wrote:

Not sure I understand. Can you clarify?

Main reason people use the bowline is because it is easy to untie after weighting.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

Haha, I use a bowline with a tucked Yosemite finish, called the "Lee locked bowline" below (see caves.org/section/vertical/…).  I'd been using it for years prior to Lee's submission.   You tie a bowline with a Yosemite finish and tuck the free end (strand number 2 in right-hand diagram below) back down through the "nipping loop."  Put another way, if you pulled out the end of strand 2, you'd have a bowline with the Yosemite finish.    It doesn't loosen, and doesn't add a finishing knot to either the inside of the loop or the standing part.  No one can check it.  I don't care.

Tyler Newcomb · · Burlington · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 86
rgold wrote:  No one can check it.  I don't care.

That's a pretty significant thing not to care about mistakes happen to even the best of climbers and another set of eyes is never a bad idea. 

Chris Blatchley · · Somerville, MA · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

Rethreaded bowline if I’m untying again soon. Fig 8 if I’m staying tied in all day.

Yes, people can’t check, but they say “hey is it right” then I check and verify. I’m less concerned about checking the knot is tied correctly and more that the knot is completed.

But seriously wtf are we talking about this? I was talking not more than 1 hour ago about how MP only ever talks about three things... lol

r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0
rgold wrote: ... No one can check it.  I don't care.

These youngins messing with accepted practice, I bet you'll never make your 20th birthday!

r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0

Figure of eight or rethreaded bowline (https://www.mountainproject.com/photo/107476602/re-threaded-bowline-with-finish-knot). Changes on my mood and restricting factors (partners complaining, being in a gym (which has rules) etc).

Andrew Hess · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 0

End bound single bowling with a Yosemite finish. I don't have a link to it handy.
Clean, easy to die. Oops, that was autocorrect. I meant easy to tie. Hee-hee!
 it's easy to check. It would have to untie three different ways before you lose the bowline. Easy to undo. I can tie it in 15 seconds versus 30 seconds for the figure eight. I can untie it in 15 seconds versus five minutes for a tight figure eight.
Lastly, you can't accidentally leave a knot in it when you untie, like you can with a rethreaded figure eight.

normajean · · Reading, PA · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 100

Lately been switching to double bowline with fisherman’s backup due to hand arthritis. Too much struggle to untie the figure 8. 

Live Perched · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 0

I sailed for years in my youth.  We used a single bowline for everything; never backed up or finished.  It never capsized, untied or broke wet line of any type.  What is advantage over a single of the double as shown by rgold above?

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Live Perched wrote: I sailed for years in my youth.  We used a single bowline for everything; never backed up or finished.  It never capsized, untied or broke wet line of any type.  What is advantage over a single of the double as shown by rgold above?

The knot I posted is a variation of a single bowline; it isn't a double bowline.  Sailors use different ropes than climbers do, ropes that are generally optimize to hold knots better, so I don't think sailing experience is relevant.  After many years of experience, it is beyond question that an unsecured single bowline is not a climbing knot.  There have been plenty of incidents in which that knot has either partially or fully untied.  On the other hand with proper securing measures, the bowline's ability not to weld has advantages.

curt86iroc · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Dec 2014 · Points: 53
Live Perched wrote: I sailed for years in my youth.  We used a single bowline for everything; never backed up or finished.  It never capsized, untied or broke wet line of any type.  What is advantage over a single of the double as shown by rgold above?

single bowlines with no back-up have been well documented to loosen during cyclic loading in climbing applications.  google it...

Ryan Swanson · · Pepedidnothingwrong, freejg · Joined Jan 2018 · Points: 50

If you can't tie a knot, tie alottaknot

Vaughn · · Colorado · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 50

I used to tie in with a re-threaded bowline when I knew I'd be falling on it but I've reverted to always tying the figure 8 follow through (no Yosemite finish). I find I never have trouble untying the fig-8 so there's no reason not to just use the same knot all the time. Plus a neatly dressed fig-8 follow through looks really nice.

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526
Tyler Newcomb wrote:

That's a pretty significant thing not to care about mistakes happen to even the best of climbers and another set of eyes is never a bad idea. 

I intended no recommendations for what anyone else should do.  I am personally not worried about mistying my knot---many mistakes are possible, but that's not one of them, and I have relatively little faith in the effectiveness of partner checks for such things, because there is an big tendency for people to see what they expect to see. 

 I do think it is very important to check that your partner has a knotas all of the tie-in incidents I know about have to do with someone not tying in at all.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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