Thank you ADMINS for you hardwork, but please don't censor MP

Dear all the great admins,

First, let me say that I love MP and appreciate all your work as admins.

That said, I'm not too pleased with the censorship and locking of Tristan Higbee's thread selling ropes.

This is a public forum that has historically self moderated. A few bad seeds spouting off(maybe you view me as a bad seed, but I'll let you know that Tristan and I have exchanged very cordial emails surrounding the thread of selling old ropes) is not cause to exercise editorial powers. It ruins the free and self-regulated nature of the site.

Furthermore, I view deleting Trasgo's threads for profanity and personal attacks but leaving other posts with profanity and personal insults as interestingly selective.

Anyway, I understand that you will never please everybody. I understand that admins walk a fine line. I just think that censorship and locking threads is not necesary.

All the best,
Evan

I thought it was an interesting back and forth too. It reads like Tristin was taking it well enough and giving it back as well as could be expected.

And I wanted to hear if I was just being a cranky old fart for what I said. Usually, that's far too true but sometimes it isn't. OR, does Tristin actually believe we owe him something to make up for choosing to pay for the routes he establishes instead of decent food, forcing him to eat $5 pizza . I've eaten my share of pizza from that place and it totally blows. Being a poor college student has its advantages and usually cash flow isn't one of them.

"...interestingly selective."

Evan,

There are four Administrators with the tools to edit forums or the posts found within. We are not always available all of the time. Even when not "out in the field," some of us are not as involved with that portion of the website as others.

Some of us read through alot of the forum topics, while others simply respond to "Abuse Complaints." When decisions are made, they are invariably made with a great deal of patience, prudence and when applicable, consensus. We review and not act on at least a 30-1 ratio of complaints.

That said, occasionally we are tasked to make decisions that won't be viewed as globally popular. Moreover, unknown information such as the "cordial" email exchange you disclose aren't usually conveyed until after the fact (if at all). Mind readers we're not.

Anyway, I respond to you here to make it clear that we keenly understand the whole "censorship" debate. We assiduously strive to find the balance that is demanded by the website's users/visitors and expected from the website's fellow Administrators/Landlords/Founding Father etc etc.

Sometimes it's a tough job.

Nicely stated Adam.

Thank you.

To all administrators, Adam and especially to Andy.

Thank you for Mountain Project and the enrichment it offers! I didn't see the thread and have no view whether the exchange warranted action or not. I write to say two things: 1. I think sometimes admins are quick triggered and/or inconsistent and there should be less "editing" in general.

But 2. With that, and even if you totally disregard my input, thank you again for Mountain Project and all you do to make it available!

Shawn Mitchell

EDIT: Found it. Hard to tell from all the gaps and cuts, but Saxy does feel a little quick fingered. Probably warming up for New Years Eve jazz!

I can't help but be a bit confused by this censorship. If he wants to sell old ropes who cares? If someone buys them they will hopefully use them for something other than climbing, like making a rug. Hopefully nobody in this community would be idiotic enough to go climbing on ropes that are visually not safe.

The post has already been posted, if someone wants the ropes they can now contact him and buy them. What is locking the post going to do other than close out some otherwise interesting dialogue on yet another ethic??

Shawn Mitchell wrote: EDIT: Found it. Hard to tell from all the gaps and cuts, but Saxy does feel a little quick fingered. Probably warming up for New Years Eve jazz!

Hey Shawn,
I definitely hear what you are saying about the seeming banality of the post, but in this case, there is a lot missing from the post as it currently reads (i.e. there were some fairly caustic and unwarranted posts by one user in particular). Best.

To all the Admins:
Thanks a ton for all your hard work keeping this site pleasant, useful, and fun to participate in. Have a good New Year.
Cheers.

Thank you all for responding with your honest views.

The cordiality of this thread reaffirms my belief that the bad seeds are a minority.

For the record, my posts were not deleted, and I DO very much fell that people in the thread in question were violating the rule #1.

I'd just rather see the jerks driven off by the village than taken in by the sheriff.

Anyway, like said before, that you for all your hard work Admins. I know there is a lot of angst with any decision like this.

Evan

Unless I didn't post it right, my last post got edited to take out a funny joke that gave it more of the commiserating,eye-rolling,'I've been poor too' intent I wanted to convey. The whole intent of what I posted was to say that "I've been poor too but its not cool to call your customers assholes or to pretend that anyone owes you anything for the first ascents you've done."

I'm not calling anyone out so I edited the quote below in hopes of keeping everything civil. This is what the admin told me when I asked why it was locked:
"1. No, the forums are not for “addressing Tristan’s issues” by heaping abuse on him. If somebody thinks they can sell dried batshit and posts it on MP, you’ve got two choices: buy it, or don’t. Anyone who doesn’t like the merchandise that’s being sold or how much it costs can just keep it to themselves. It’s not like he was fraudulently offering crappy ropes as if they were new – he was completely up front about the condition of his ropes.

2. I’m the area admin for **,**,**,** and ** (edited)but I’m also a forum moderator. As such, you can count on me and the other mods to show little tolerance for Guideline #1 violations, unless it’s in the Community forum.

3. Sorry you think I’m jumping the gun, but you’re not the only person to post abusive messages in this forum thread. I just got fed up with it, so I locked the thread. If it was up to me, I’d lock every “for sale” thread right after the original post and let the seller and their prospective buyers sort things out offline. There’s far too much sniping at sellers as far as I’m concerned."

First of all, his response was kinda funny. I didn't think abuse was heaped. You do have more than two choices. A big part of selling any product or service has to do with checking in on the marketplace. I know I did that once with poor form and felt guilty enough to let something go at a much lower price to make up for my error.

Second of all, the judgment of rule #1 is relative and got blown out of proportion. But the admin thought I was being abusive so he put that into his equation in favor of locking it. I guess the admin feels that any discussion is not ok?

What was abusive about what I posted? I just wanted to know what he really thought. He's a big boy and can answer for himself or not. I can't imagine how hard it must be to volunteer as a site admin and have to sift through a bunch of junk written by people from all over the world. The growth and size of mountainproject over the last few years has been huge. Maybe there are funds to pay for a little part time help for these guys!

Hi,

On the censorship issue:

There is a clear definition in my mind of censorship if someone does not sign their own name. The internet has allowed a great deal of people to post or spray whatever they feel like without consequences. It only makes on a Hippocratic if they talk of censorship, but in turn do not have the integrity to sign their name and stand up for what they are saying or believe in. Posting anonymously is just being a coward.

Rob Schwarzmann

I followed that thread from the beginning and I was appalled by response to the OP's post. As noted above he never represented these ropes as anything but well-used. I appreciated that the admins edited that thread. The Internet doesn't follow the same rules as face-to-face conversation does and it can spiral out of control pretty easily. MP.com: keep up the great work!

I know where Tristan lives! If anyone wants to bring pitchforks I will organize the lynching...maybe we could do it on a "No Star Tuesday" so you all can take out your horrible weather conditions frustrations out on him :) I just need to know who can bring the drinks...

Guideline #1: MP.com very own interpretation of the reductio ad hitlerum...
Too bad it's becoming a rule more than a guideline.

Whilst perusing this fine forum for tips on which belay Device and Quick Draws to use for my next scaling expedition at the Slips and for potential female climbers I could impress with my Gore Tex outerwear, I chanced on this travesty of a thread.

Let me tell you I wholeheartedly agree with the censorship displayed in the other thread. In fact I am Shocked, Outraged and Surprised at the overall content of Mountain Project.

Why, I say, Why oh Why are not more things being Censored.

I am completely outraged by the post previous. Why is this person allowed to type French words on such a fine American forum such as this one?

In other threads I see that certain Unscrupulous dastards are posting about Karaoke, which happens too late at Night to be a wholesome activity. Will you not censor such outrageous materiel?

Why are people allowed to question the decision of the fine Mountain Project Administrators? Such miserable cretins deserve to be struck down along with their posts.

It is also disturbing to me that topographic information freely displayed on this site contains words such as "Bong" "Crack" "Jug" "Lieback" and so forth, the gross meanings of which are obvious. Why also does Mountain Project let their users freely display routes that are"R rated" or even "X rated"?

More Censorship is what this site needs! More censorship I say!

samg wrote:More Censorship is what this site needs! More censorship I say!

Oh, wow, finally, satire worthy of Swift! Oh, wait, no, no it's not ;)<--winky face=proof I'm not being a jerk

The use of male to male smiley faces should also be struck down... that's it, now I am never coming back...

Best troll ever?

I just want my flag count. I'd like it in Jolly Roger format, Calico Jack if you please; reports from the Republic Of should count twice.

Is is possible to put it on my profile page?

samg wrote:More Censorship is what this site needs! More censorship I say!

Like this?

video.google.com/videoplay?…

samg wrote:The use of male to male smiley faces should also be struck down... that's it, now I am never coming back...

Sorry, one last thing, before I do go, I wanted to make a Public Service Announcement that we will be forming an Action Committee to purge the internet of all smut and bad behaviour. Starting with Mountain Project.

We are calling it Justifiably EnRaged Kan't take it anymore, or JERK.

Tristian we will make sure than no one ever, ever makes fun of you for selling old ropes.

If you would like to joing please bring a Casserole of choice to share, but no Pizza, that sounds too Italian.

Meetings at 5:45, Bingo at 6.

We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.