New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

phylp phylpwrote:

Someone upstream was critiquing senior discounts, based on the premise that seniors as a group have higher reservoirs of wealth. Based on the articles I read regularly in a variety of places (including AARP publications), that is a misconception. 

No. Again groups and individuals are not the same. Seniors are the wealthiest segment of American society as a group. Seniors are also the age cohort with the greatest wealth inequality within the group. That means there are both lots of poor seniors -- who benefit greatly from senior discounts, as well as plenty of well off seniors who don't need them but still get them.

As to the bullet points listed above #1 is true for all age cohorts, #3 I mentioned previously but #s 2,4 and 5 are somewhat unique to the US when compared to other first world countries. That's a consequence of extreme levels of wealth inequality and lack of a rational health care system. On average poor people in EU countries live just as long as wealthy people in the US.

ErikaNWwrote:

Buck wrote:

‘I would love to do one of the 12 or 24 hour Nordic events that they have out in Colorado.  I was going to do one but then we moved here to West Point.‘

Come on out Buck! We have a guest room and I’m happy to do support/crew! 

Oh man!  I love this thread (most of the time!)!

Thank you for the overly kind and generous offer!

Won't be happening this year with work, et al but perhaps next winter as I start my transition out of the loving embrace of good ol'Mother Army!

And Eric!  I've been looking at the NENSA schedule and they do have a few marathons/Loppets listed throughout New England but I'm not seeing a full Birkie or 12 hour one on the schedule.

I know that Lake Placid used to run a Birkie event as well but I'm not seeing it for 2026?

I'll keep looking!

And Erika:  Are you the ones that work at The Colorado School of Mines?  My high school senior's application is in (so he tells me!), might need a kind word with the admissions department???

;)

James Harvey wrote:

Super duper wonderful anchor (at least that’s what I told myself) on Lovely Bones.  

Daniel- if you were only gonna climb one route in RR

Cloud Tower is a great choice!!

Richard Harrison was a humble and funny stud..

I enjoyed Cloud Tower and was happy to squeak out a flash. My partner led the thin stemming pitch so I had the advantage of a top rope for that one which I think is the crux of the climb. She really wanted to lead that pitch and I was happy that she did. 

I bet Mr Harrison probably spent a night or two at the cool bivy in my second photo. I never met him, but my friends expressed much respect for him. 

Buck Rogerswrote:

Oh man!  I love this thread (most of the time!)!

Thank you for the overly kind and generous offer!

Won't be happening this year with work, et al but perhaps next winter as I start my transition out of the loving embrace of good ol'Mother Army!

And Eric!  I've been looking at the NENSA schedule and they do have a few marathons/Loppets listed throughout New England but I'm not seeing a full Birkie or 12 hour one on the schedule.

I know that Lake Placid used to run a Birkie event as well but I'm not seeing it for 2026?

I'll keep looking!

And Erika:  Are you the ones that work at The Colorado School of Mines?  My high school senior's application is in (so he tells me!), might need a kind word with the admissions department???

;)

My husband is a prof at Mines (mechanical). We are both alumni (physics for me and material science for him). It’s a great school - I’m routinely floored by how smart these kids are. Definitely let us know if you come out to visit campus (we can arrange the super secret special tour). Also feel free to DM me if your son wants to ask anything about the school (or surrounding area). 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I’ve only climbed a single route at RR’s. I tried to warm up to it but never felt a strong attraction to the place. I think that I’m just a terminal granite junkie. 

I did enjoy a cool bivy spot and helping friends look for a new project.

Happy Friday everyone.

What an awesome bivy in your picture, Dan. I’m trying to figure out where that is… I can see Bridge Mtn in the background, which has the amazingly fun 5.6, 5 pitch NE Buttress (left 45-50 degree skyline). What a great day to even FIND the route, and icing to climb it. So your bivy is north of Bridge Mtn; can’t place anything except for the top of the Angel Food Wall area. Great pics as always.

ErikaNWwrote:

Jubilant Song was probably my single best/favorite day on rock. It lived up to the name. It felt super adventurous and we didn’t see another person except for a military helicopter that hovered next to us for awhile at one of the upper belays. It was SO cool. I think it was 10 years ago when we climbed it. Thanks for bringing up that amazing memory. 

It's a really great day.  Didn't see a soul when we climbed it either.

One of my earliest trips with a digital camera...hence:

Start of the day view...

I think this is the traverse pitch?  Nice to get into the sun.  Chilly in late November for us.

Summit in fading daylight...  Geez, over 22 years (and a few pounds!) ago...

ErikaNWwrote:

My husband is a prof at Mines (mechanical). We are both alumni (physics for me and material science for him). It’s a great school - I’m routinely floored by how smart these kids are. Definitely let us know if you come out to visit campus (we can arrange the super secret special tour). Also feel free to DM me if your son wants to ask anything about the school (or surrounding area).

Between my junior and senior year in high school I was VERY LUCKY to have received a scholarship from the NSF to study physical chemistry and geology at the School of Mines. One student from each state was selected, but somehow two girls from Maryland made the cut, so 51 students in total.  The geology class was taught in the field, very informative, and the in the physical chemistry lab we spent the entire six week session determining the number of molecules in a given area of a water/oil plate.  Very difficult, at least for me.  I have great memories of the School of Mines.  The NSF sent out an annual questionnaire for 25 years afterward asking for an update on education and professional status. My guess is that the NSF has fallen to the Trump axe even though the US has received a significant return on investment from all those young minds.

PS:  Erika, does the Foote Pharmacy in Golden still exist?  The source of my first true girlfriend!

apogeewrote:

'Reservoir of wealth'. Speaking for myself, I laugh robustly. But I'm not quite in the frightful lower level that the AARP is citing. (At least not at the moment...fingers crossed.)

Still, while the wealth gap is clearly wider than it's ever been, I do wonder how those stats have changed over the years...decades, in particular, as it relates to the advent of Social Security. My gut says that these levels are substantially lower than they were say, 50-70 years ago. (Could very well be wrong about that, though.) It also seems likely that no matter what economic situation is like at a given time, and no matter what level of social programs are created to support these income issues with older populations, there are always going to be a number of people who just don't plan at all, or make really poor financial decisions throughout their lifetime. As much as I'd like to see our economic system create a more balanced means by which people can build their lives, and  assistance provided to those who have genuine need, how to separate that from those who are serial poor choice makers (or more obviously, system abusers), really isn't clear to me.

Good point, thanks.  

Bill Lundeenwrote:

What an awesome bivy in your picture, Dan. I’m trying to figure out where that is… I can see Bridge Mtn in the background, which has the amazingly fun 5.6, 5 pitch NE Buttress (left 45-50 degree skyline). What a great day to even FIND the route, and icing to climb it. So your bivy is north of Bridge Mtn; can’t place anything except for the top of the Angel Food Wall area. Great pics as always.

Hi Bill, that spot is up near the top of the Buffalo Wall. 

I chopped a hole in the ice with a 6ft bar. Its getting pretty rugged. at least 3 inches thick. It was -16f this morning. Isa took this shot of me scooping out the ice chunks with a shovel. It's a lot more pleasant getting in without sharp chunks of ice in the water. 

then we went for a ski and cleaned up two trees that had fallen on the trails. 

did a big loop through the woods and came out in the far corner of her field. that is Isa's farm in the distance. 

by the time we got back to the sauna it had frozen over again with a half inch of new ice. I got that cleaned up and the fire going.  We did 3 plunges. the last one the sauna was up to 185f By the time we were done it was like jumping into a slurry. It froze over between each round and when you broke the ice to get in it mixes all that freshly broken ice into the water... 

Felt like mid winter today... 

yukonjackwrote:

Long time lurker.
From the US Federal Reserve September 19, 2025
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/compare/chart/#quarter:143;series:Assets;demographic:generation;population:all;units:levels
About as ground-truth for wealth distribution as you will be able to get.

The context of the running conversation, I tend to interpret more broadly as "who is entitled to what"? in American society, or maybe "where did we set our expectations of retirement"?
Am I going to have to work a cash register at 80? I dunno, maybe?
Should I expect not to?
What are the things within my control, today, that materially impact me at 80?
What is has changed/ is changing about any implied social-compact in America that I need to account for?
No answers here (other than the hard data above), just pondering the prior comments.

Thanks for posting some actual data. The massive amount of wealth held by baby boomers is partly the result of wealth accumulation but also their sheer numbers. So another question is as they pass on how does that effect the rest of the economy.

Emil Briggswrote:

Thanks for posting some actual data. The massive amount of wealth held by baby boomers is partly the result of wealth accumulation but also their sheer numbers. So another question is as they pass on how does that effect the rest of the economy.

Some to GenX and Millennials, I’d guess?

Li Huwrote:

Some to GenX and Millennials, I’d guess?

Sure but also stuff like demand for services and goods. Medical care is a good example since it shoots up as people age which will be happening even as baby boom doctors are retiring en masse.

I’ve been avoiding joining in the conversation about wealth, but at least in my opinion,  there are several key factors being overlooked here. First, a major contributing factor  leading to increased wealth inequality has been the off shoring of production. Off shoring of production consolidates profits at the corporate level and reduces domestic employment and labor bargaining power. All one needs to do to see this is to look at the depressed state of once thriving towns and cities, then look at the conditions of these places prior to the factories closing and production being moved overseas. The loss of good paying and benefitted jobs also diminishes the tax base which leads to the next major co factor. 

Inflation is a major factor in the loss of wealth and the devaluation of currency. When good paying and benefitted jobs are off shored, tax revenue is lost but demand for social welfare is increased. This contributes to deficit spending, the creation of “new” money, increased debt and inflation. Inflation strips wealth from people without hard assets  and greatly limits an individuals ability to save. To understand inflation, realize that something that cost $1000 dollars in 2000 would cost around $1900 today. So in reality, saving money to acquire hard assets is a tough proposition for many Americans. 

Currently the US GDP to debt is at 121% and rising quickly. Historically when this ratio reaches 130% servicing the debt becomes impossible and grave societal consequences often occur. I’m not sure what a viable solution to this is, but unfortunately the economic future isn’t too bright. 

I hope that everyone has a great Saturday. 

James Harvey wrote:

Daniel I’m guessing the perfect plateau directly above?

Hi James, it was at least 15 years ago so my memory is a little faded but yeah that sure seems like the spot. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I’ve been avoiding joining in the conversation about wealth, but at least in my opinion,  there are several key factors being overlooked here. First, a major contributing factor  leading to increased wealth inequality has been the off shoring of production. Off shoring of production consolidates profits at the corporate level and reduces domestic employment and labor bargaining power. All one needs to do to see this is to look at the depressed state of once thriving towns and cities, then look at the conditions of these places prior to the factories closing and production being moved overseas. The loss of good paying and benefitted jobs also diminishes the tax base which leads to the next major co factor. 

Inflation is a major factor in the loss of wealth and the devaluation of currency. When good paying and benefitted jobs are off shored, tax revenue is lost but demand for social welfare is increased. This contributes to deficit spending, the creation of “new” money, increased debt and inflation. Inflation strips wealth from people without hard assets  and greatly limits an individuals ability to save. To understand inflation, realize that something that cost $1000 dollars in 2000 would cost around $1900 today. So in reality, saving money to acquire hard assets is a tough proposition for many Americans. 

Currently the US GDP to debt is at 121% and rising quickly. Historically when this ratio reaches 130% servicing the debt becomes impossible and grave societal consequences often occur. I’m not sure what a viable solution to this is, but unfortunately the economic future isn’t too bright. 

I hope that everyone has a great Saturday. 

Agreed.  The dollar is in the process of losing it’s status as the World’s Reserve Currency.  Alan Greenspan used to say that every morning he would look at the price of gold in order to know how the Federal Reserve was doing with the value of the dollar.  At the time (90’s) gold was between around $ 250 to $ 450 an ounce.  It is currently at $ 4,200.  

People with hard assets will do fine in a dollar collapse.  Those with no assets will get crushed.

As long as we're all throwing in our pics of Jubilant Song... also from a little over 22 years ago.
A sort of long, but really good day on the rock with good friends.

Inez leading the first pitch.

Inez and I hanging out at the belay below the traversing pitch.

BIll on the pitch above the traverse?

Bill on the summit plateau.

We are lucky to be enjoying perfect Fall weather. The recent rains have been welcome,  with the hills finally taking on a nice green hue. The deer were out in force chowing down on the new grass.

Went for my inaugural ride on my new Gravel Bike - so much fun (& fast) on the local trails. Even set a couple PRs.

Isa and I climbed up in the notch today. I led a two pitch climb in one long 70 m pitch. The steep parts were fine but everything in between was horrible powder snow over smooth rock.. I doubt I would have been able to keep my shit wired tight and be relaxed and in control if I didn't do so much soloing. In fact I feel soloing is mandatory training for leading hard ice. Isa was so gripped watching me lead that she didn't remember to take a picture.  At on point I got to the top of a dead vertical pillar and there was no ice and the rock was smooth with nothing to hook. I had to do a straight up mantle and work my feet all the way up to stand above my tool over a 10cm stubby. 

Isa at the top.  

I love the contrast between Nick's pictures and Randy's---same day---sure is a big country!!!!