New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #40

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

I am sorry Emil but it sure seems like several times you argued that young people need help more than seniors because apparently we have accumulated wealth and don't need the help. that is how it read and it was rather disturbing. it goes back to the park pass conversation but obviously it pushed my buttons considering my own senior situation where I will be somehow paying a mortgage until I am 80 years old and the frame of my work truck just rusted through. 

It's easy to be misunderstood in this type of forum. But no I don't think we should be taking benefits away from people who are struggling, whether children or seniors though, on average, seniors are the least likely group to be in that boat with an average net worth over 1.5 million. But roughly 30% of seniors have no meaningful savings at all and need help. As do a similar percentage of children who need SNAP benefits just to eat. So I'm sorry for pushing your buttons but I think you were viewing it from a personal POV while I was referring to a demographic group.

Going back to the issue of means testing, it's difficult to do for a lot of things but would be especially so for park passes. A better solution is to reduce wealth inequality which is pretty extreme now. The 50 richest Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 170 million which is basically Gilded Age levels.

oldfattradguuy kkwrote:

Since folks are posting some old minnewaska stuff and I can’t find my old postcards, here is an extremely rare copy of a poster that a maintenance worker drew for when the Empire State games xc ski races was going to be there in 1988, unfortunately it didn’t snow and they were moved north, I set alll the courses that would have been used.

Oi!  I was a sophomore in high school in 87/88 in northeast Vermont and that was my first year ever on skinny skis!

I'd run XC and track and there was a small XC ski program at my high school so I figured I'd give it a try!

Talk about a life changing moment!

I've loved it ever since!  We never raced in NY but we raced all over Vermont and NH and I continued racing in college while at UVM but NOT on the official team as they were NCAA Champs a few years!

I was just a citizens racer.  Still love it! 

The Stowe Derby was always a highlight!  Broke a ski one year and a pole another year in that race!  Ooof!  That first miles-long downhill was a killer!

Looking forward to Monday trying to find and figure out the XC place at Minnewaska!

Ski On everyone!

Li Huwrote:

Many people are feeling this way about A.I., but there are many embedded applications where AI is extremely useful.

The large companies have been laying off many engineers, AI included.

But, smaller embedded applications have only just started to blossom.

It’ll be interesting to see how this all pans out.

I had a completely different purpose for bringing up Nvidia.  I also mentioned Jimmy Page.  My point was to talk about a radically different perspective of aging— one that is just starting to unfold for me.  It’s been a real infusion of hope and joy.

I didn’t expect that after six years of kicking around Joshua Tree, having my freedom back for a long spell , I would emerge refreshed and inspired and considering what’s next.  I assumed that what’s next would be the dreaded decline of everything as foreseen for seniors in their 70s and 80s and in AARP magazine which I never asked for, but now shows up monthly regardless.

 If Jensen Huang can be this vital and powerful at 62 years of age, direct a ship as big as Nvidia with Google and young upstarts nipping at his heels, I am incredibly heartened.  

At the same time, many of us feel vulnerable in every respect. Nick, you said it so well – – the future looks hard and perilous.  (you have always inspired me.)  and I frequently fear “what if the economy collapses?”  “what if I wake up one morning to find I’m really sick or Tony is really sick.”.  There’s a lot of what ifs and I don’t think I could make ends meet being a greeter at Walmart.  

So it’s a strange dichotomy. I’m heading out to climb this morning. It’s 36°. It seems ludicrous to have chosen this activity at this stage of life but I really want to smash whatever glass ceilings I have left in my head.  

The lady at the grocery counter last night was certainly in her 80's. Is that going to be me? can I survive being a slave/employee again? 

No, and neither will she, nor will I nor anyone else.

We've only to choose what we will do with the time we have left.

Buck Rogerswrote:

Oi!  I was a sophomore in high school in 87/88 in northeast Vermont and that was my first year ever on skinny skis!

I'd run XC and track and there was a small XC ski program at my high school so I figured I'd give it a try!

Talk about a life changing moment!

I've loved it ever since!  We never raced in NY but we raced all over Vermont and NH and I continued racing in college while at UVM but NOT on the official team as they were NCAA Champs a few years!

I was just a citizens racer.  Still love it! 

The Stowe Derby was always a highlight!  Broke a ski one year and a pole another year in that race!  Ooof!  That first miles-long downhill was a killer!

Looking forward to Monday trying to find and figure out the XC place at Minnewaska!

Ski On everyone!

The Nordic skiing in the gunks, when there was enough snow was extensive!  It was possible to ski some major distances!  When lake minnewaska was added to the state park system, I set up the ski patrol.  We were told we had to sweep trails at the end of the day and had a system for cat herding.  It was not uncommon to turn folks around and have to follow them out.  For some it had taken all day for them to get to lake awosting which meant we were usually skiing back in the dark with them and earning overtime! 

Buck Rogerswrote:

Oi!  I was a sophomore in high school in 87/88 in northeast Vermont and that was my first year ever on skinny skis!

I'd run XC and track and there was a small XC ski program at my high school so I figured I'd give it a try!

Talk about a life changing moment!

I've loved it ever since!  We never raced in NY but we raced all over Vermont and NH and I continued racing in college while at UVM but NOT on the official team as they were NCAA Champs a few years!

I was just a citizens racer.  Still love it! 

The Stowe Derby was always a highlight!  Broke a ski one year and a pole another year in that race!  Ooof!  That first miles-long downhill was a killer!

Looking forward to Monday trying to find and figure out the XC place at Minnewaska!

Ski On everyone!

Hey Buck - did you ever do the 60k ski marathon that was an annual event for a few years in the 80's - may have been too early for you.  It was cool because it was mostly back country - started up near Breadloaf or Ripton and ended in Rutland. I did that one 3-4 times in the 80's and the Canadian one just across the boarder once in the late 70's 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

The lady at the grocery counter last night was certainly in her 80's. Is that going to be me? can I survive being a slave/employee again? 

There’s a part of me that has been saying lately “when the time comes we’ll figure it out “.  Makes no sense worrying about tomorrow when we have a beautiful today.

Loris wisdom of the day. 

So glad that I got established in the Boulder area when it was inexpensive. We jokingly refer to the front range as 40 square miles surrounded by reality. 

Now that climbing is so mainstream my climbing partner and I make  a point of not  climbing on weekends. Maybe it's like that everywhere.

I’ve only climbed a single route at RR’s. I tried to warm up to it but never felt a strong attraction to the place. I think that I’m just a terminal granite junkie. 

I did enjoy a cool bivy spot and helping friends look for a new project.

Happy Friday everyone.

Eric Engbergwrote:

Hey Buck - did you ever do the 60k ski marathon that was an annual event for a few years in the 80's - may have been too early for you.  It was cool because it was mostly back country - started up near Breadloaf or Ripton and ended in Rutland. I did that one 3-4 times in the 80's and the Canadian one just across the boarder once in the late 70's 

No!

I was too young at that point but it sounds amazing!

I did a full 55 K Birkie with a 12 pound weight in my USWE hydration pack three years ago at Craftsbury on my own one time and I did the Leadville Loppet as well but those are the only marathon Nordic ski distances that I've done.  

I've raced up to 25K a number of times, and skied that for training routinely but never over 55 K at a go. 

I would love to do one of the 12 or 24 hour Nordic events that they have out in Colorado.  I was going to do one but then we moved here to West Point.  There must be some of those around upstate NY or New England.

I'll have to look into them locally!

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

The lady at the grocery counter last night was certainly in her 80's. Is that going to be me? can I survive being a slave/employee again? 

There is always pneumonia, "the old man's friend", that is if you can keep away from doctors and their antibiotics  

Brad Youngwrote:

Yep, for my first trip to Red Rocks Bill suggested that we climb Jubilant Song. It was one of the early routes established at Red Rocks and who wouldn't love the name? I was sold on it instantly.

It turned out to be an adventurous and really nice route. The first of many relatively unknown climbs that you (Bill) suggested we climb. Almost all of those suggestions turned into great days.

And oh wow, do I EVER remember Hot Fudge Thursday. Were we five pitches up when we realized that we were gonna have to climb straight left, across flowing water? I expected slime and pulling on gear and was blown away that the rock still had friction. We both kept the ascent clean in spite of the water!

We had lots of great days on better known routes too.

Hard to say Bill if I loved (love) our Joshua Tree climbing or Red Rocks climbing better? Actually, I think back on all of it as some of my best-ever climbing trips.

(I still occasionally miss the sound of coffee beans being ground by hand.)

Jubilant Song was probably my single best/favorite day on rock. It lived up to the name. It felt super adventurous and we didn’t see another person except for a military helicopter that hovered next to us for awhile at one of the upper belays. It was SO cool. I think it was 10 years ago when we climbed it. Thanks for bringing up that amazing memory. 

Buck wrote:

‘I would love to do one of the 12 or 24 hour Nordic events that they have out in Colorado.  I was going to do one but then we moved here to West Point.‘

Come on out Buck! We have a guest room and I’m happy to do support/crew! 

M Spraguewrote:

There is always pneumonia, "the old man's friend", that is if you can keep away from doctors and their antibiotics  

Pneumonia. Captain of The Men of Death. William Osler. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

The lady at the grocery counter last night was certainly in her 80's. Is that going to be me? can I survive being a slave/employee again? 

Someone upstream was critiquing senior discounts, based on the premise that seniors as a group have higher reservoirs of wealth. Based on the articles I read regularly in a variety of places (including AARP publications), that is a misconception. 

Buck Rogerswrote:

I've raced up to 25K a number of times, and skied that for training routinely but never over 55 K at a go. 

I would love to do one of the 12 or 24 hour Nordic events that they have out in Colorado.  I was going to do one but then we moved here to West Point.  There must be some of those around upstate NY or New England.

I'll have to look into them locally!

Great Glen in NH used to have a  24 hour version

'Reservoir of wealth'. Speaking for myself, I laugh robustly. But I'm not quite in the frightful lower level that the AARP is citing. (At least not at the moment...fingers crossed.)

Still, while the wealth gap is clearly wider than it's ever been, I do wonder how those stats have changed over the years...decades, in particular, as it relates to the advent of Social Security. My gut says that these levels are substantially lower than they were say, 50-70 years ago. (Could very well be wrong about that, though.) It also seems likely that no matter what economic situation is like at a given time, and no matter what level of social programs are created to support these income issues with older populations, there are always going to be a number of people who just don't plan at all, or make really poor financial decisions throughout their lifetime. As much as I'd like to see our economic system create a more balanced means by which people can build their lives, and  assistance provided to those who have genuine need, how to separate that from those who are serial poor choice makers (or more obviously, system abusers), really isn't clear to me.

Long time lurker.
From the US Federal Reserve September 19, 2025
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/dfa/compare/chart/#quarter:143;series:Assets;demographic:generation;population:all;units:levels
About as ground-truth for wealth distribution as you will be able to get.

The context of the running conversation, I tend to interpret more broadly as "who is entitled to what"? in American society, or maybe "where did we set our expectations of retirement"?
Am I going to have to work a cash register at 80? I dunno, maybe?
Should I expect not to?
What are the things within my control, today, that materially impact me at 80?
What is has changed/ is changing about any implied social-compact in America that I need to account for?
No answers here (other than the hard data above), just pondering the prior comments.