New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

From the previous thread:

Dragons wrote: Hi Gabe, Thanks for filling in some details. I've heard people talk about Petit Grepon, and now you mentioned "The Diamond". But when I search for these two names, I find that they are areas (that I linked to) with several routes on them. Did you do a specific route in the Petit Grepon area? Ditto for the Diamond.

> I don't claim that the same thing can be be done so easily at 65, with all the wear-and-tear injuries that come along with that, and living in central NY state.

If I read you correctly: It's not really a problem living in central NY state, since there are plenty of training opportunities. For example, I could plan full climbing days on a regular basis, if that helped. I say "if" because I'm not really clear that full climbing days are useful anymore. They may just lead to more wear and tear than my body can recover from. I've definitely got wear-and-tear issues that slow me down now, especially when hiking with a pack.

At my age, I want to maximize my outdoor climbing experiences. There's no way to be sure about this, but it seems like I'll get more total climbing done over the next 20 years if I attempt more modest objectives than if I work on more unrealistic, ambitious and possibly more consequential ones. On top of that, I'm a 5.4 leader, so unless miracles occur, it doesn't make sense to train for alpine climbs with 5.8 pitches.

I do have a few long-term objectives that are ambitious, for me: Henderson Ridge at 5.4 is easy enough that I should be able to lead all pitches, if needed, though I prefer swapping. At Grade III, it might require camping overnight, which would drastically increase pack load, so not great. Then there's Trap Dike (4th class). The inherent risks in objectives like these are potential route-finding epics.

In another life, I might have found it interesting to do mountain climbing with all the snow and ice, but I don't want to spend time and money getting into something that committing at this time in my life. I'd rather become more proficient at rock climbing. Long but easy technical rock alpine routes seem like fun and potentially doable. But any partner would have to accept that I might slow them down.

I hear you.  I don't want it to sound like I was giving advice, since such advice would be ridiculous coming from me, when what I'm doing myself is the opposite of increasing my objectives or training for the mountains.  The point I was trying to make was simply this:  While our climbing grades may differ, you and I seem to share the same outlook, that we're generally happy with cragging, rather than bigger objectives in the mountains.  And yet, when I had the opportunity to do bigger things, I'm glad I took them. 

As for what I'm up to now, it couldn't be a smaller objective unless I was bouldering.  A single short route, climbed over the course of several years...

On Friday I played hooky from work and got out with my stronger buddy I've known for many years.  We went up to Rumney and got on our multi-year project:  Journey to a Mushroom Planet.  I really enjoy this route.  The difficulty in the route is that it's steep, weird, powerful, and complex, without any single moves that require the kind of finger strength or pure power I'll never have as a climber.  I've come to learn over the years that being weird and awkward are two things I like best in both climbs, and climbers.    

It was not quite as perfect a day as Ward describes yesterday, but only a little bit warmer.  Damn close to perfection.  Leaves starting to pop.  Hiking up and back from the crag through swirls of all shades of reds, golds, orange.  Even though it's getting close to the end of the year, this is the first time we've been on our project this year, due to other commitments.  And yet my buddy and I each got a new personal high-point (meaning the furthest we got before a first hang, for those of you who don't project).  This bodes very well for both of us.  He is much closer to sending, and I suspect he'll send this year if we can get out another time or two.  I'm much further away, but still making significant progress, so I'm extremely happy.  It also felt great to know that I left everything on the table.  On my third burn I couldn't climb for $hit.  Took me three tries to pull into the opening sequence, and then I just finally went bolt to bolt to clean up the route.  I thought I would have a good go in me, but the fact that I didn't just showed that I really gave it my all on those first two runs up the route.  And the fact that my forearms (as well as many other muscles) are sore today (in a good way) reinforces that point.  

Hoping to get up there again a few more times before the snow starts to fly, but it's very hard for both of us with family commitments, so I'm practicing being grateful for what I've gotten.

GO

Edited to add: Thank you to all for adding so many amazing photos of your adventures out there. 

And congrats, Ward, on the progress on your problem.

Guy Keeseewrote:

Good morning from Bridgeport….

Nice!

Lui…. “we never let the Engineers speak to customers…”

That’s only because some marketing and sales people oversold the product and engineers tell them the truth.   

Love that third one, “If an engineer gets too tall, they get chopped and canned”, so true  . 

Today, we were reacquainted with some old opportunities.

Jim. That's some clean looking rock. 

Bernie chassed Hugi up a tree this morning and gave us all a good scare.  He stayed up there crying for long enough to make his point but when I tried to rescue him with an extension ladder he said screw this and down climbed. Jumpped from about 10 ft. gave me a dirty look for letting that beast into his yard and high tailed it for the woods.  He is a master of making me feel guilty. 

we hiked out to the Lookout today and did two of our climbs. 

Buena Vista 5.8+

and Vista Grande 5.8  Both climbs are in your face steep but they have good holds

The view from the top of Vista Grande

Hugi forgave me when I came home but I made sure to drop Isa and the beast off at her house first. 

Guy Keeseewrote:

Good morning from Bridgeport….

Lui…. “we never let the Engineers speak to customers…”

So Brad when is the guide book coming out?
I hope it is better than some of the others that couver the West Side Sierra. I currently possess a PDF with over 2000 climbs located on the Kern Plateau. The author has made me give a blood oath that I will not share “on line” information. I can, and do, print out a page or two and share with my young friends- AKA The Sherpas.

And Brad, do you recognize the prominent peak in the photo? Jan and I are camping on Robinson Creek. 

I enjoyed reading everybody’s comments on our political situation. The song remains the same.

And to Nick… the scrubbrush and garden blower are required tools for “developing” out west.

Later all. 

Hello Guy.

I'm pretty sure I'm looking at Matterhorn Peak and the Sawtooth Ridge/Dragtooth to the right of it?? That's a great perspective and especially nice if it's from your camp site! I'd definitely drink a beer to that view.

And which new guidebook (of two I'm involved in)? I've mentioned the new Pinnacles guidebook in this thread, but you're very close to our neck of the woods and might be asking about Sonora Pass.

The new Pinnacles guidebook is fully assembled now beyond route 1,000 out of about 1,400 routes. We need this coming season to finish it and will get it to the printer in March or so.

After Pinnacles is done, Sonora Pass (???). The current (2013) book is 600 pages long for just under 1,600 climbing routes. Since then I've fully documented over 800 more routes (lots and lots of granite up here and lots and lots of FAs - we established three new routes today up to 110 feet long). I know of 100 or so other new routes that I haven't managed to get documented.

So if we were to update the Sonora Pass book as a comprehensive, single book? Neither you nor I would be able to lift it.

The thought is that we'll move to a nine inch by seven inch, all color format (as with Pinns) and take two of the nine major areas at a time (the 2013 book has one major area which is the low county and eight major areas in the high county). That might be doable and both of us (me the author, and Steve the excellent climber and computer genius) are now retired and probably have enough time.

How long are you up for? Wanna jet over this week for a home-cooked meal, showers and then a tour of our still secret area that has already blown peoples minds? Phillip might chime in here about that area and might even join such a junket.

EDIT: I deleted my first version of this post because in quoting Guy I inadvertently cut out the photo he posted and asked about.

EDIT TO ADD PHOTOS:

Laura Leading Jenny Jenny on Tommy Slab at Two Tone Cliff (5.8 **).

Steve Leading Fistfight at Two Tone (5.8 *** - bring your number fours):

Some geezer on the third lead of  Green on Black (5.7 *** - 110 feet and just established today):

I enjoyed reading everybody’s comments on our political situation. The song remains the same...

I struggle looking at this thread now that the repugs have control.

No doubt. The song remains the same, and it seems to be the same. The few will always keep any thread going. 

I like campfires way better. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/magazine/tyler-robinson-political-violence.html?smid=url-share

Pretty thoughtful piece from the NY Times. Interesting history, too.

Jim Uwrote:

if you can still find the vibram five finger shoes those give a modicum protection but still greatly strengthen feet and increase your proprioception

https://www.vibram.com/us/shop/fivefingers

they were all the rage for a while in running.  Huge amount of adaptation if you are trying to run in them, heel striking hurts and your calf muscles are probably not used to that level of engagement.  but for hiking and increasing foot strength.  100%

I bought some of those a few weeks ago, mainly for belaying/getting off routes, but I've found they're great for hiking to the crag and scrambling.  

The day after the first day I wore them to actually hike to the crag I found my calves were quite sore, which is a GOOD thing! You can actually smear the rock face quite well with them; they're quite sticky rubber.  Initially my little piggies would NOT go home but now they go home to their own little places quite OK when I first put them on.  I am concerned they might start to smell a little (I wear them with no socks)...

Old lady Hwrote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/19/magazine/tyler-robinson-political-violence.html?smid=url-share

Pretty thoughtful piece from the NY Times. Interesting history, too.

I don’t think it was “political” per se?
Tyler told his parents: Isaiah 5:20

On the climbing front, I plan to get on the Vampire early October. Cross fingers. My buddy just had his aas kicked on The Consolation. 

Li Huwrote:

I don’t think it was “political” per se?
Tyler told his parents: Isaiah 5:20

On the climbing front, I plan to get on the Vampire early October. Cross fingers. My buddy just had his aas kicked on The Consolation. 

Nice!  Should be a good test of your new crack skills.  Looks like a fantastic route!  Hard to practice mantles in the gym, though. Good luck!

GO

Daniel Joderwrote:

That is one gorgeous slab. Are you bolting anything for us older mortals or is it all hard stuff? Beautiful. 

Thanks , it is nice.  I broke my my ankle a few days after turning 60 and bolted the first route on the dome 9 months and 2 surgeries later.  All the routes have been stance drilled from the bottom up by a broken old man and as such are pretty tame and if you do slide there's not much to hit. Here's another crag upstream that I'd need porters to climb.

Good Glorious First Day of Fall morning!

Just catching up after stepping away from the thread for a few days.

So great to see all the photos and lovely, friendly discussions!

Beautiful!

Dragons post about remote projects a week or so ago got me to thinking about one of my other loves in nature, hiking, so I went for a great hike on Saturday.  

As I am such a goal oriented type of guy, I had started doing the Catskills 3500 club last fall but had not done any since last January so I headed back to the Catskills.  

I left early as both of my high school boys had a XC meet hours away and had to be at the school at 0530!  Made it to the parking lot on Mink Hollow Rd at 0700 and I was hiking at 0715.  First hiked up to a small col and went to the right and up to the Plateau peak summit.  Steep little climb for the last 0.5 mile.  Then back down to the col and up and over Sugarloaf and then up and over Twin and then South Twin and then over to the Indian Head summit where I started back and went back over South Twin, Twin, and Sugarloaf and then down to the car.  Such a beautiful day and hike.

My pack was a bit under 20 pounds as I had an emergency sleeping bag, winter clothing, 3 liters of water, food, etc. Just under 7.5 hours total time, a bit over 12 miles, and 5,885 feet of elevation gain.  I was sure sore yesterday and my calves are feeling it today but good to know that I can still hike a bit!

All of you West Coast folks must think that we're weak here on the East Coast with our puny 3,000 and 4,000 foot summits but they are steep!  I have done six 14,000 footers in Colorado as well as Whitney and Rainier and the East Coast hikes are no joke!   

But Dragons, Henderson Ridge has been on my list for a bit so maybe we can find a weekend this fall to meet up and do it!  I'll con one, or both, of my high school boys into joining us and they can carry the rack and ropes and we'll make a day of it!

And I had to "borrow" my wife's car for the hike on Saturday as I hit a huge old buck on Thursday night with my car.  Hit it at around 30 mph.  Crunched the front of my car and the deer was thrown about ten feet but he got up, shook out his legs, stared me down, and then slowly trotted back across the road and up into the woods.  I hope he survived.  Adrenaline can be a hell of a drug. 

Lastly, Alan! Geoff Tabin says hello!  I had a great conversation with him yesterday.  He said that he used to climb with you a bit when he was in med school at Harvard in the '80's and that he used to see you at the Gunks and around the MA climbing scene.  He's still climbing strong out in California where he now works at Stanford Med.

Buck Rogerswrote:

...But Dragons, Henderson Ridge has been on my list for a bit so maybe we can find a weekend this fall to meet up and do it!  I'll con one, or both, of my high school boys into joining us and they can carry the rack and ropes and we'll make a day of it!

I won't say no, but I do hate to be a drag on anyone. That being said, I would love to do this. My understanding is that the hike in and out is pretty lengthy and strenuous (route comment: "fun/easy climb, terrible/difficult approach"). A quick search doesn't tell me how many miles in you have to hike, but I see the Huntington Ravine Trail is a very steep hike. To give you an idea, my last big hike was over Pierce and Eisenhower in 2019. It was a 10.6 mile hike that took 6.5 hours, maybe we took a few short breaks, but we were unweighted aside from carrying water... I wonder if I could do this hike in 1 day, at this point, or even back then. The climbing itself looks like fun and would probably be low effort in comparison.

It might be wiser to aim for this adventure next year near the middle of the summer when the weather is warm and the days are long.  

How many times would I have to climb up and down the Stairmaster to get a comparable training session, I wonder?

Buck, say 'hi' to Geoff next time you speak with him.

Dragons, It is very possible to spend a night in your way into Huntington for Henderson's. The HMC cabin is in the lower part of the Ravine, just off the trail, but primarily for winter use, so not sure if it is available during the summer. But close by, in Tuckerman's Ravine, you could reserve a sleeping shelter. You'd need to bring sleeping bag, pad, cooking stuff, but no tent.

The walk up into Huntington from either shelter does require some scrambling over and among some substantial talus, so not the easiest going, but doable. The descent, a couple of options--Lion's Head trail the easier walk down than Huntington Ravine Trail, but, maybe you could have someone pick you up at the Alpine Gardens on the Auto Road--nice, easy walk from the top of the route--IF the weather is good!!!! ( of course, then you'd also need a 'Sherpa'  to bring you sleeping gear back down from where you'd spent the night---always complications!!!).

dragonswrote: How many times would I have to climb up and down the Stairmaster to get a comparable training session, I wonder?

I was told 1:1 but varying the settings between level 4-5 and bursts of level 8-9.

So, if my hike is 40 minutes for an extremely fit person, then 40 minutes. Level 4 for 5 minutes and a burst at 8 for 30 seconds. HR should never exceed 3/4 your max for more than a few moments.

Don’t grab the bars, except for balance now and then.

From the sound of your hike maybe 2 hours of intervals?  Depending upon the steepness set the max accordingly. 24 bursts at level 8 or 9 would be extremely intense. Maybe 3 with 6 burst?

Buck Rogerswrote:

All of you West Coast folks must think that we're weak here on the East Coast with our puny 3,000 and 4,000 foot summits but they are steep!  I have done six 14,000 footers in Colorado as well as Whitney and Rainier and the East Coast hikes are no joke! 

I’ve hiked and climbed around New England enough to know that there is nothing ”weak” about those mountains. I still consider my January hike of the peaks starting with Mt Madison across to Mt Washington as being one of my more demanding and committing adventures. 

Nice James. Back when I climbed quite a bit in Zion I called that one Flails of power. If I cruised it I knew I was on my game, if not, well…

Carl Schneiderwrote:

I bought some of those a few weeks ago, mainly for belaying/getting off routes, but I've found they're great for hiking to the crag and scrambling.  

The day after the first day I wore them to actually hike to the crag I found my calves were quite sore, which is a GOOD thing! You can actually smear the rock face quite well with them; they're quite sticky rubber.  Initially my little piggies would NOT go home but now they go home to their own little places quite OK when I first put them on.  I am concerned they might start to smell a little (I wear them with no socks)...

Hi Carl. If you don’t mind, I will be sending you a private message about Australia climbing beta, mainly Arapiles, the Grampians, Nowra and the Blue Mountains. Thanks!

Li Huwrote:

I was told 1:1 but varying the settings between level 4-5 and bursts of level 8-9.

So, if my hike is 40 minutes for an extremely fit person, then 40 minutes. Level 4 for 5 minutes and a burst at 8 for 30 seconds. HR should never exceed 3/4 your max for more than a few moments.

Don’t grab the bars, except for balance now and then.

From the sound of your hike maybe 2 hours of intervals?  Depending upon the steepness set the max accordingly. 24 bursts at level 8 or 9 would be extremely intense. Maybe 3 with 6 burst?

LiHu, I think Dragons was joking (sort of).  But to be clear, the Stairmaster is an approach trail at The Gunks. 

https://gunksclimbers.org/gunks-beta/the-trapps-cliff/

FTA:

The approach from [the West Trapps] lot ascends to the cliff up the West Trapps Connector Trail, which is popularly known as “The Stairmaster,” and which deposits the user, panting from the steps, at the Trapps carriage road partway down the cliff.

Buck, I'm very impressed you can do that off the couch!  You say you're a little sore today? I would be immobile for days!  Take it easy on Dragons!  But anyway, sounds like a very worthwhile objective, hope this works out! 

Cheers,

GO

Li Hu, Alan, and Gabe, re Henderson Ridge: Indeed, my comment was an inside joke about "The Stairmaster". That is a short set of rock stairs that lead from the lower Gunks parking lot to the Carriage Road.

We don't have much in the way of elevation gains here. So for training I will need to do "pointless-up-and-downs" (PUDs). The Stairmaster goes up maybe 400 feet or so? How many times would I need to go up and down that to get something equivalent to the hike up to the Henderson Ridge? I've been trying to find out exactly what that hike is like, but the actual numbers are hard to find.

The Henderson Ridge approach is via the Huntington Ravine Trail (HRT). It looks like you do maybe 1500 feet of elevation gain before bushwhacking up and off to find the Ridge. Over maybe 3 miles of hiking in? So in fact, maybe just a few hikes up and down the Stairmaster with a pack is good training for this route, and then some more PUDs over to our Millbrook Trail for additional elevation gain and mileage. I will have to do more research to see if I'm correct. If I am, then I feel more assured that I can do this adventure climb in one day without breaking into millions of pieces.

I don't like the idea of having to hike in with enough gear for an overnight. I suppose that could be fun too, but a lot of extra weight. My goal is to get it done in one day. I'm hoping that Buck, Bill, and I (and potentially an extra person or two) might get together and do this one next year when the days are longer. If we do it, I will make an effort to chronicle it and post up pics. I've never done anything remotely like this, so it will take some research.