New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #39

Li Huwrote:

Use of quads may be good for everyone?

I’ve started stair climbing again, and it’s helping with my gym climbing.

I should read up more about this? Meanwhile many of my less experienced climbing friends seem to think my upper body and finger strengths is what gets me up climbs, but it’s really focusing upon the legs.

Li Hu… that post and info is really for women.  The fact that your upper body strength will always far exceed mine is partly the point.  You have more natural strength there. My quads are great (relatively). I have other strengths that you might not have.  It’s a great study. 

T Hockingwrote:

Like Cherokee says, Lucky to be alive and to be here.

Not the mountains, but the Humboldt Redwoods coast living in our van the TADMOBL for the week. We prefer to boondock than stay in campgrounds and are currently enjoying our morning coffee at our secret secluded bivy site that overlooks the ocean. 

The wife takes long beachcombing hikes while I fish the surf.

Had a first for me happen yesterday. While fishing for surf perch I reeled in my first Dungeness Crab. Though undersized and out of season it brought a smile to my face and the realization that like momma Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get."

All fish and the crab released and sent back to their home.

Life is good,  Carry on,  Tad n Mo. 

Tad, feel free to not answer (to not give away your secrets), but I think Vicki and I have "vanned" there too. Is that shot out to the west of Petrolia? It still surprises me that a section of California's coast can be so isolated (if that's it...).

Jim Uwrote:

well stated.....

the left can continue to enjoy the new version of cancel culture.

Signed also a former Army officer and combat veteran. Who firmly believes in Free Speech.... the consequences..... well that clearly varies based on wiring between the ears of the receiver.
(Your speech is protected from the gov't, not from being a vile human)

You know I looked really hard and was unable to find a single case where the FCC under either the Biden or Obama administrations pulled or threatened to pull the broadcast license of any network or station because of their political speech or news coverage. I did find plenty of instances of Trump threatening to do so and Trumps FCC chair Brendan Carr just did it to ABC. There have been plenty of private boycotts of various sorts. Anyone remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks? (oh wait that was a boycott from the right so we gotta memory hole it) but private boycotts are protected by the constitution and I have no problem with them. On the other hand the people trying to justify Carrs threats against ABC sound like the guy who beats his wife to death and then tellls the judge "But your honor she wanted it!". 

Jim Uwrote:

the left can continue to enjoy the new version of cancel culture.

As Inigo Montoya said: "You keep using that [phrase]. I do not think it means what you think it means"

How do those boots taste? 

Emil Briggswrote:

You know I looked really hard and was unable to find a single case where the FCC under either the Biden or Obama administrations pulled or threatened to pull the broadcast license of any network or station because of their political speech or news coverage. I did find plenty of instances of Trump threatening to do so and Trumps FCC chair Brendan Carr just did it to ABC. There have been plenty of private boycotts of various sorts. Anyone remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks? (oh wait that was a boycott from the right so we gotta memory hole it) but private boycotts are protected by the constitution and I have no problem with them. On the other hand the people trying to justify Carrs threats against ABC sound like the guy who beats his wife to death and then tellls the judge "But your honor she wanted it!". 

Facts dont matter to fascists

Brad, No we are farther north, a mile south of Orick on 101.

This area is near Prairie Creek Redwoods State and National Park. Highly recommend if in the area. 

We've been coming here to relax and escape the Redding heat for 40+ years. 

Petrolia and the north end of the Lost Coast at Mattole River, my favorite backpack of all time!

Lori, lots of barefoot hiking will strengthen your climbing feet in profound ways, just you wait and see!

This thread would probably flow better if the partisans (on all sides of the political spectrum), could simply and succinctly state (in their own words), their vision to promote a positive future. This constant nuh-uh-yeah, misuse of actual words (yeah words have meaning), and parroting of nonsensical obviously biased “studies and facts” (like Lori said, “check your sources”), while sometimes comical and entertaining, is quickly becoming tedious. Don’t hold anything back, let it all out, hash it out, then maybe it can be possible to return to the celebration of making it at least 50 years and the shared love of climbing. 

Emil Briggswrote:

You know I looked really hard and was unable to find a single case where the FCC under either the Biden or Obama administrations pulled or threatened to pull the broadcast license of any network or station because of their political speech or news coverage. I did find plenty of instances of Trump threatening to do so and Trumps FCC chair Brendan Carr just did it to ABC. There have been plenty of private boycotts of various sorts. Anyone remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks? (oh wait that was a boycott from the right so we gotta memory hole it) but private boycotts are protected by the constitution and I have no problem with them. On the other hand the people trying to justify Carrs threats against ABC sound like the guy who beats his wife to death and then tellls the judge "But your honor she wanted it!". 

100%, a bit dramatic, but at least now that more people are affected by these suppression policies, more people know how people of colour in the USA have felt for centuries.

To the last post, yes, there is a positive, I see hope for my future having Chinese or American made chips much cheaper.

 That will cascade into me being able to afford multiple guides to carry me up K2.   

Emil Briggswrote:

You know I looked really hard and was unable to find a single case where the FCC under either the Biden or Obama administrations pulled or threatened to pull the broadcast license of any network or station because of their political speech or news coverage. I did find plenty of instances of Trump threatening to do so and Trumps FCC chair Brendan Carr just did it to ABC. There have been plenty of private boycotts of various sorts. Anyone remember what happened to the Dixie Chicks? (oh wait that was a boycott from the right so we gotta memory hole it) but private boycotts are protected by the constitution and I have no problem with them. On the other hand the people trying to justify Carrs threats against ABC sound like the guy who beats his wife to death and then tellls the judge "But your honor she wanted it!". 

Dude really?

twitter-files scandal, DHS disinformation board, Biden laptop suppression all driven by Biden admin,  the dixie chicks was a boycott..ok..how was the executive branch involved?  I forgot them just because I hate country music....  

Kimmel hasn't been funny since the man show....and on a downhill rating slide for how long.  The nexstar press release pre dated carr's comments. this was ABC's chance to cut dead weight.

Facts dont matter to fascists - how's about you tone yourself back to normal human being. I'm not even going to engage

Fascists are such snowflakes. The second you call them out, they clutch at their pearls and accuse you of not being able to tolerate other opinions.

Here's some advice. If you don't want to be called a fascist, don't do fascist things or support fascism. Simple. 

Lori Milaswrote:

I took my first barefoot hike yesterday— A full 2 miles and caused more anxiety than hiking around rattlesnakes. I left the house, a little distracted without my hiking shoes in hand and only discovered it once I was parked and ready to head out. It’s this guy who is so feared so I tread carefully.    

if you can still find the vibram five finger shoes those give a modicum protection but still greatly strengthen feet and increase your proprioception

https://www.vibram.com/us/shop/fivefingers

they were all the rage for a while in running.  Huge amount of adaptation if you are trying to run in them, heel striking hurts and your calf muscles are probably not used to that level of engagement.  but for hiking and increasing foot strength.  100%

Jim Uwrote:

Dude really?

twitter-files scandal, DHS disinformation board, Biden laptop suppression all driven by Biden admin,  the dixie chicks was a boycott..ok..how was the executive branch involved?  I forgot them just because I hate country music....  

Kimmel hasn't been funny since the man show....and on a downhill rating slide for how long.  The nexstar press release pre dated carr's comments. this was ABC's chance to cut dead weight.

Facts dont matter to fascists - how's about you tone yourself back to normal human being. I'm not even going to engage

Yes really. None of the things you mentioned involved the government pulling or threatening to pull broadcast licenses. The Dixie Chicks comment was specifically referencing private boycotts which I said I had no problem with. 

I'm not the one who said facts don't matter to fascists.

Lori Milaswrote:

About to turn 72... I am keeping an ear open more than ever for the aging advice.  Stacey certainly provides more than others.  The protein thing, for sure... is huge.  Sleep.  But what about zone training... what is even "Zone 2" for me?  (i have an idea).  How long/hard should I go on daily hikes to pick up some additional stamina and endurance?  Is there an upper limit for HR?  "Nobody knows."     (anyone seen the Washington sketch with Nate Bargatze?)  

Lori - I started using a HRM (heart rate monitor) about 1985 when I was continually getting sick/injured during my marathon training. It was a revolutionary for me. My training partners were significantly better athletes than me so I was always over training. I suspect I was doing zone 4 and 5 training five or six days a week. 

Do you have a HRM? Do you know what your max heart rate is (either estimated using a formula or measuring it)? Do you wear it at night so you know what your resting heart rate is? If you want to approach fitness scientifically then an HRM is key. Here's how I would go about it:

• Estimate your max HR using the Takana equation: HRmax = 208 - 0.7 * age  I find this underestimates my max HR but at least it is conservative)
• Calculate your zone 2 as 60-70% of HRmax
• Exercise 4 to 5 days per week in Zone 2. Shoot for 20-40 minutes. These workouts should feel pretty easy. You should be able to hold a conversation while exercising. Some people will dip into the bottom part of zone 3 (70-80%)
• After 3-4 months of this start adding one day per week of interval training. I like 4x4 intervals meaning four minutes hard followed by four minutes of rest. I do 3-6 repeats. The intensity should be such that you reach Zone 5 (90% of max HR) near the end of the interval. Some people prefer shorter intervals (like 1x1 or 2x2) but you want to start with about 5-10 minutes of total "hard effort" eventually working up to 20-30 minutes of hard effort. These days kind of suck in that they are hard!
• Monitor your resting HR for signs of over training. At my peak this summer my resting HR was 44 bpm. After a really hard interval day or if I did not sleep well it would be over 50 bpm. That was my clue to take a recovery day (30 minutes of zone 1 i.e. a brisk walk and some stretching). You've got to listen to your body! I use a Garmin Forerunner fitness watch and I find the HRV (heart rate variability) metric is really good at indicating my level of recovery. Numbers are not comparable across individuals but for me numbers in the low thirties (milliseconds) indicate I'm not well rested whereas numbers in the low fifties means I have recovered well. Their sleep score also seems to correlate well with how rested I am.

This methodology is known as the Norwegian method. You can learn more about it on YouTube. You'll find lost of stuff about determining your zone 2 using lactic acid testing but for us non-professionals that above works well enough.

Of course you should consult with your doctor before listening to some dude on the internet.

Jim Uwrote:

(Your speech is protected from the gov't, not from being a vile human)

Brian Kilmeade's very recent comments on Fox News stating that the homeless should be exterminated via lethal injection...pretty vile, don't you think? And where was the outrage on the Right and FCC action against Fox for this kind of free speech?

Of course you should consult with your doctor before listening to some dude on the internet.

HA! If I had done that I would have quit bouldering 20 years ago.

Cherokee…. What you wrote put a smile on my face this morning. Thanks
I consider myself to be extremely lucky- I’m still alive, against all odds.
Packin up now to go fishing with Jan for a week, going up the east side. Bridgeport, walker river forks, up around Sonora Pass. Hopefully get to pet a few Trout.

Lori- watch out for the cactus!

Later all, happy climbing. 

Jim…. Remember don’t waste time arguing with cowardly bots.

Someone can’t use their real name and just joined.

Jim U - thank you.  I love being barefoot, but learned the hard way that chollo thorns and goatsheads will just lay me out helpless.  And they're everywhere.  In fact, I learned to carry tweezers after a chollo attack to the back of my calf and spent the afternoon draped over Tony so he could pull shards out of the back of my leg, one by one.  

So, I don't know how I made it yesterday.  Maybe I'm just learning.  I could see maybe those Vibrams.  I think I had a pair once.  I was also looking at pics of Native Americans here who made some kind of sandal out of local yucca plants.  But I've had these thorns pierce through my thick hiking shoes with ease. 

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Ken Tubbs aka Dude On The Internet   :  Thanks for taking the time to write all that!  This kind of info is really what I'm here for.   I wear a WHOOP (wearable wrist device measures heartrate among other things), and occasionally back it up with a HRM.  I watch it closely.  But I think it's the aging thing... like last year when I was climbing a hard route, breathing hard, heart rate sky high.  I remember asking Bob as I was gasping for air, "is this ok?" ... having just watched Randy Levitt climbing Book of Hate and breathing that hard. Bob seriously didn't know if that same level of exertion is ok for old(er) people. Am I gonna have a heart attack on this route?  Or am I possibly strengthening my heart?   I just went for it anyway, but with some concern about all the warnings around old people not going above their maximum heartrate (assigned by cardiologists).  As my doctor always says "We don't know.  You're teaching us."   

And that's just the start of what modern science doesn't know about aging athletes... or women.  

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I didn't want to circle back to this topic.  But  something I wrote earlier--my fault--I didn't explain it well as it launched another uncomfortable dialogue on politics.  

What I've been trying to find is any kind of pathway to dialogue with my best friend, my family members, with the general population who have totally different beliefs.

So, that morning, I had read a powerful article by two women friends who talked about Charlie Kirk.  One woman, left-leaning, had ONLY seen curated clips of the reprehensible things he has said--that's all she knew and it's what she believed to be the entire story. The other woman, more Conservative and MAGA, had ONLY been seeing video clips of Charlie as loving husband, father and Christian leader.  Together they realized that they hadn't been working with the same set of facts... so they decided to share their clips and articles with each other.  Then they were able to piece together something like a bigger picture. It allowed them to converse, and to understand where the other was coming from.  

How many times have I said to my friend "Did you see what Trump said about..."... and she always says "He said WHAT?  No, I've never heard that."  And vice versa.  

As I said before, I feel like we are all being heavily manipulated by media.  We get whatever we already believe.  But I think, at least with my friend, we might agree to start with "Well, what have you been reading about this (x,y,z)?"  Because I think we might BOTH discover that we have been lead by the nose all along. 

It was not my intention to say that we should all be reading and studying politics night and day.  

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