New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Lori Milaswrote:

I had no idea the expected crowd was 70,000 to 80,000 people. It shows the hunger so many people have for something real. But taking a week off the grind to put on your hippie garb and do the burn short changes people of the real deal. Many of us here have made space for this our whole lives, with climbing and love of wilderness being a piece of it.  

I have to question the suggestion that Burning Man represents "something real". The encounter described was transitory and superficial--hopefully 'reality' is something more than that.

Alan Rubinwrote:

I have to question the suggestion that Burning Man represents "something real". The encounter described was transitory and superficial--hopefully 'reality' is something more than that.

All I would think of at an event like that is “where the hell am I going to be able to pee?”   I’m too used to being at home or out in the woods where that is never a concern.

Lori,

This may sound strange fossil, but I have to be careful here to hold onto my head in this desert. The first time I drove through with kids in my car I definitely felt the altered state like nowhere else.  It makes sense that this early pack of 19 year-old Climbers in the early 70s would be doing what the rest of hippie-dom was doing – – getting loaded.

I don’t think I’ve lost the gift of LSD, but I’m much more sober today in the best way. Right?  How do you feel about this?

I am not quite sure what you mean when you say " hold onto my head in this desert." but I'd like to hear more. The first time I saw Joshua Tree I also felt in an altered state since the whole place looks like something out of a hallucination and completely foreign to the land I came from. As far as the gift of LSD and being sober in the best way, again we would have to flesh that one out a bit more for me to be sure we are talking about the same thing. I will say this, I did tons of hallucinogens bitd and do not regret any of it, but these days I am way too much of a control freak to ever cut loose to the degree that taking a trip requires. I still smoke some weed, but I adhere to a no dope on a rope policy.

phylp,

not my handiwork, I think I got it from goatboy smells (if ya remember him) but I don't think it is his work either. The antibodies can't say for sure, but they do work to verify that the thing is not moving even though my mind says that it is.

Eric,

context my friend, Hermann Buhl was the first to solo summit an 8000-meter peak, achieving this feat on July 3, 1953, when he reached the summit of Nanga Parbat alone and without oxygen. This monumental solo ascent remains a unique achievement in mountaineering history.  "the other 13 virgin 8K summits were all reached by non humans I guess?"  nope, Buhl was the first to solo an unclimbed 8000 meter peak, I suppose that we would have to dig into Himalayan climbing history to find out if any of the other 13 were soloed as a first ascent.

Feel free to check back in when you are done tripping balls.

John Gill,

I spent the day about 10 years ago picking up trash along the Big Oak Flat road with John Stannard. Very nice guy with a keen intellect, way beyond my shallow depth.

Here's a historical bit he wrote about Shockley that I got a kick out of...

You all know that William Shockley with Bardeen and Brattain wrote the papers describing the invention of the transistor; that being the device ultimately allowing each of us to do what we do minute by minute through each day. (By the way those last two guys were no slouches, Bardeen for example getting two Nobels). And many of you are also aware Shockley, like Mr. Harding, said what he thought was right and did not give “a rat’s ass” whether anyone approved. Typical climber kind of thing, which he was.

Now, I was not there myself when Shockley was climbing in the Gunks but I was told this by one who did climb with him. Which would make this is second hand. After the day of climbing Shockley would usually go back to what would today be called a “bed and breakfast” and spend the entire night writing “Electrons and Holes in Semiconductors.” (This seminal book is very hard to get. The best I could do was an illegal knockoff printed in Taiwan in the 60’s.) Now if you think Shockley’s Ceiling was the most radical thing he did, you misjudge how boring it is to write a textbook, seminal or otherwise. He in fact would get entirely snockered, probably at Emile’s bar and grill and would then set off with a friend to climb by moonlight without a rope. Those of you who have climbed there realize the cliff is “pretty steep.” So, in the dark you have only a certain amount of time in which to find a hold and then even after that you have only a certain amount of time in which you can use that hold. Now here is something of which many may not be aware. Wasps in eight-inch diameter pancake nests also find the cliff a good place. If, in the dark, one would attempt to use one of these as a hold one might expect to face “a fairly urgent” situation. Suffice it to say, and here I try to repeat what was said by my source, “the world is as it is – quite by chance.”

 Something to ponder.

Finally, for Ward...

I added some holds, I hope it helps you send.

I guess that about covers it

fossilwrote:

Eric,

context my friend, Hermann Buhl was the first to solo summit an 8000-meter peak, achieving this feat on July 3, 1953, when he reached the summit of Nanga Parbat alone and without oxygen. This monumental solo ascent remains a unique achievement in mountaineering history.  "the other 13 virgin 8K summits were all reached by non humans I guess?"  nope, Buhl was the first to solo an unclimbed 8000 meter peak, I suppose that we would have to dig into Himalayan climbing history to find out if any of the other 13 were soloed as a first ascent.

Just to be clear I am perfectly aware of The Buhl story. Lonely Challenge being one of  the books that I took to heart in my impressionable youth 60 + years ago.  Along with Conquistadors of the Useless, Annapurna and of course anything by Gaston.  I was just poking fun at your wording - leaving out "solo" but adding "human".  

Ward Smithwrote:

All I would think of at an event like that is “where the hell am I going to be able to pee?”   I’m too used to being at home or out in the woods where that is never a concern.

Ward, I think it’s time to forget about waterless, treeless, barren deserts for for these sort of tribal gatherings.  Instead, I see major cultural, generational, life changing events in the still verdant birch, beech, maple woods of Western Mass.

Forget Burning Man… the next step in our cultural evolution is: Peeing Man (definitely non gender specific…)

Everywhere you turn, there‘s a tree to pee on ( and, no crypt-biotic soils to kill..)  I admit, it would be hard to find parking for all those Sprinter vans.   But, looks to me like a small detail.

And if causal hookups were your thing: compare boinking in a dry, stony, desert vs a soft, verdant pine forest…

People would pay a fortune….

Imagine what kind of “my private Idaho” climbing area we could buy with all the money we’d make…

Ed “thinking outside of the box “ E

Went and looked at a local cliff a friend has been developing. 200ft tall and hidden in plain sight.. super intimidating and mostly 5.11 and harder but he claims that there's at least two routes that I get up..... 

John Gillwrote:

To others: Do any of you JT people run into John Stannard?  I think he lives there. Atkinson wrote about John's part in the clean climbing revolution in America. And Stannard was an early practitioner of multiple attempts at a particular trad problem - think Foops. Interestingly, bouldering was undergoing a similar reformation as Jim Holloway began devoting considerable time and effort to some boulder problems. 

Stannard and I are the same age, both Ancient of Days.   

Haven't run into him in a long time.
I heard somewhere that he also has a place out near the coast (Santa Barbara?) as well as Josh. 

Todd Gordon might know more.

John climbing in Indian Cove on Thanksgiving 2000

Joy Bastet wrote:

not much evidence exists for this. in fact not much evidence exists that suggests we aren't machines 

Is “reality” a shared experience interpreted by individual perception, or is “reality” the creation of individual conciousness?

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Is “reality” a shared experience interpreted by individual perception, or is “reality” the creation of individual conciousness?

Jan Mcwrote:

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, it was not my intention to upset your delicate sensibilities. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

 “reality” a shared experience interpreted by individual perception, or is “reality” the creation of individual conciousness?

That's a fair enough question on the face of it. If the definition of reality used here is meant to suggest an underlying state of nature, then reality predates both shared experience and individual consciousness. This reality existed long before man. 

But if reality means something wholly contingent upon human experience, like the myriad distinctions between social and individual consciousness, then we have a different animal. Then the proper word might be trend, or fashion, or something highly shifting and relative.

Donald Thompsonwrote:

 “reality” a shared experience interpreted by individual perception, or is “reality” the creation of individual conciousness?

That's a fair enough question on the face of it. If the definition of reality used here is meant to suggest an underlying state of nature, then reality predates both shared experience and individual consciousness. This reality existed long before man. 

But if reality means something wholly contingent upon human experience, like the myriad distinctions between social and individual consciousness, then we have a different animal. Then the proper word might be trend, or fashion, or something highly shifting and relative.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. My question was meant to be open to individual interpretation.  It was a reply to a post about the possibility of humans being machines. I found this interesting,  and thought,  if we are machines, the nature of reality would be in question. I’ll admit to the ”navel gazing” aspect of this question, but after all, isn’t social media the perfect medium for this type of discussion?

ed esmondwrote:

Ward Smithwrote:

All I would think of at an event like that is “where the hell am I going to be able to pee?”   I’m too used to being at home or out in the woods where that is never a concern.

Ward, I think it’s time to forget about waterless, treeless, barren deserts for for these sort of tribal gatherings.  Instead, I see major cultural, generational, life changing events in the still verdant birch, beech, maple woods of Western Mass.

Forget Burning Man… the next step in our cultural evolution is: Peeing Man (definitely non gender specific…)

Everywhere you turn, there‘s a tree to pee on ( and, no crypt-biotic soils to kill..)  I admit, it would be hard to find parking for all those Sprinter vans.   But, looks to me like a small detail.

And if causal hookups were your thing: compare boinking in a dry, stony, desert vs a soft, verdant pine forest…

People would pay a fortune….

Imagine what kind of “my private Idaho” climbing area we could buy with all the money we’d make…

Ed “thinking outside of the box “ E

I'm offended at any sentence with Idaho and buy in the same sentence, but, my semi existent brain also got side tracked pondering the possibilities of a causal hookup ...

Re Private Idaho for real, I'm just back from COR. It was a meetup with my artists group. One woman was wanting to try climbers as her subject, so I pointed her toward Bath rock and the rollercoaster wall. When she showed me her work? It was immediately recognizable as Private Idaho. All the rest had quite decent renditions of my favorite place, and it was great to tell everyone that they had not just nice art, but great likenesses (and this from a climber who's been here a bunch).

A little art, some climbing, a lot of assaults from cute little furballs to fend off.....a really good trip. 

Climbing highlight?

Actually found something Schaefer hadn't been on....and I had. Took him to the top part of Fence Line, with the bolted line Poptart as the objective.

First try, right as he was ready to roll, the once in awhile rain drops got serious. We were soaked to the, uh, chest hairs, yeah we'll go with that, by the time we got back to the car.

Second shot, a couple days later, Paul elected to not do the top part, as I told him I would only do top roping this trip, no cleaning, and it was unclear what that top bit was. 

So he now at least knows to be prepared for the tart part. Myself? I can still climb, yay, after a rather long stretch of not much at all. 

Paul will be a knee replacement this winter, I'm guessing I have pt coming up. I finally saw a doc in a box for the arm injury from back before the June get together. Nothing much from that, yesterday, except the xray does show osteopenia and some shoulder arthritis. Yay. I think I just ripped something, late May, and the healing process is simply sloooooow.

Anyway. I got my top rope shot. Don't climb any worse than I ever have, lol!

More importantly, the last venture out was just Warrior rock, but the old man cripple was working the 10 cruxes, largely without his favorite leg cooperating. Which meant a real active belay, for a long time. VERY pleased with that going well! I got a Petzl NEOX last season, and I'm pleased to report it delivered as hoped. I was able to belay just as I would with my ATC, and deliver the tiny back and forth stuff just fine.

Entertainingly, he had that rope as tight as it could possibly be, stretched thinner even! Noticeable at a glance, plus the color was different too.

Wow! There's thunder here! Morning t storms are a rarity. 

Best, Helen

As someone who may be facing the possibility of dating sorts of situations....transitory and superficial does have some appeal, at least to the inner 19 year old (the last time I eas single). 

A question?

I'm supposed to be taking vitamin D as that came up short on blood test, even with a huge amount of sun exposure.  That's supposed to be "with food". Reading up, it's absorbed past your stomach, and fat soluble. So, eat something with some fat in it, when I take it? Right when I take it okay? Like, just chug a handful of almonds with a glass of milk, good enough? 

I don't take anything at all, regularly, so it's difficult to remember this. I also don't eat first thing, unless you count the coffee/latte food group.

Thanks! H.

Nice, Helen!  Great update!  Weren’t you about to get a dexascan?  Good luck with the casual hookup! 

I decided it was time to go have a look at Baby Apes 12c, a route of John Bachar’s. I have a friend who recently climbed this.  Also looking at Rastafarian 14b FA Scott Cosgrove.  The whole thing is nuts, imo. 

Wall from side angle.

It’s just hard to imagine.  Looks like the kind of thing Kris would climb.    utterly Impressive.
—-

So as long as I was in the area… Here’s my idea of a great climb…. CS Special (Jan and Dave Houser).

I was so proud even though there was no chance of me launching onto that wall the standard way.    I had to invent a workaround. 

Thank you Jan.  It’s really a beautiful rock and a lovely route.  (Oops. Did not see you on the FA. Thought you were in on that. )

Speaking of… the tomatoes in stores have all turned shitty.  I’ve maybe only had a couple good ones all summer.  So, next year I’ll resume growing them for sure.  

Old lady Hwrote:

As someone who may be facing the possibility of dating sorts of situations....transitory and superficial does have some appeal, at least to the inner 19 year old (the last time I eas single). 

A question?

I'm supposed to be taking vitamin D as that came up short on blood test, even with a huge amount of sun exposure.  That's supposed to be "with food". Reading up, it's absorbed past your stomach, and fat soluble. So, eat something with some fat in it, when I take it? Right when I take it okay? Like, just chug a handful of almonds with a glass of milk, good enough? 

I don't take anything at all, regularly, so it's difficult to remember this. I also don't eat first thing, unless you count the coffee/latte food group.

Thanks! H.

I’ve been taking 5,000 IU of D3 for years, I take it (and a bunch of other stuff) with breakfast.  Make sure to take a vitamin K supplement as well as it helps to keep calcium out of your arteries.  Magnesium is also supposed to be important to take along with it.  

N=1 but I have had only two minor colds in the last six years.  Before I started taking D3 maybe 25 years ago I got sick every fall when the days got short. 

Daniel Shivelywrote:

I think a lot of the challenge in relating to different ratings is the consistency and quality of gear placements. I realize that the difficulty of the moves are what (in theory) describe the rating of a climb, and even though this is usually accurate, a climbers overall emotional experience is often the cause of confusion. For me, it required practice and focus to remain calm and relaxed. Once I could consistently do this, the ratings seemed more consistent. To prove this to yourself, find a route you’re psyched about that’s just within your comfortable onsight level, lead the pitch, then do a top rope burn while cleaning your gear. I’ll bet at least 7 out of 10 times, the climb will be perceived as easier on top rope. A wise stonemaster once told me “put your foot on the hold and stand on it”.

Agree.

There are 5.11d that I struggle on and 5.12c that feel relatively easy too. Grades aren’t a good metric to demonstrate improvement. Nor is “improving” a requirement for climbing. This thread is all bout enjoying this sport even at an advanced age.

The general consensus here seems to be as long as you’re enjoying the climbs, there’s no point in punishing yourself for not being able to “hit your grade”. Especially as we age.

Ward Smithwrote:

I’ve been taking 5,000 IU of D3 for years, I take it (and a bunch of other stuff) with breakfast.  Make sure to take a vitamin K supplement as well as it helps to keep calcium out of your arteries.  Magnesium is also supposed to be important to take along with it.  

N=1 but I have had only two minor colds in the last six years.  Before I started taking D3 maybe 25 years ago I got sick every fall when the days got short. 

Thanks. I'm not much of a morning eater, so.theres that. I'll read up on adding in other stuff. I also need to lose weight, get stronger, etc. Yada yada, but geez, gotta do it, right?

I am also one who very rarely ever gets sick at all, knock on wood. 

H.

Oh, sorry Lori. I just had garden tomato in an omelet, and have oodles to pick. 

Old lady Hwrote:

Thanks. I'm not much of a morning eater, so.theres that. I'll read up on adding in other stuff. I also need to lose weight, get stronger, etc. Yada yada, but geez, gotta do it, right?

I am also one who very rarely ever gets sick at all, knock on wood. 

H.

Oh, sorry Lori. I just had garden tomato in an omelet, and have oodles to pick. 

Totally my bad.  I just kept thinking, well... we have a GREAT Farmer's Market here every Saturday.  This year I'll just buy my tomatoes there.  I don't know what the problem is.  They look pretty good. They taste terrible.

Li Huwrote:

Agree.

There are 5.11d that I struggle on and 5.12c that feel relatively easy too. Grades aren’t a good metric to demonstrate improvement. Nor is “improving” a requirement for climbing. This thread is all bout enjoying this sport even at an advanced age.

The general consensus here seems to be as long as you’re enjoying the climbs, there’s no point in punishing yourself for not being able to “hit your grade”. Especially as we age.

I’ve always (mostly) been more drawn to the aesthetic of a climb above any other metric. In my home areas I always settle into a circuit of boulders and climbs that I find beautiful and enjoyable to repeat.  For me, the process of climbing is where the magic is. 

I’m only a half decade past the minimum age required to participate in this thread, but I’ve enjoyed the partnership of several older climbers. It’s interesting to me how my relationship with climbing has developed over the last 35 years. I hope that everyone in here enjoys a great future.