New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

I listened to the latest Alex Honnold podcast this morning, an interview with John Bachar.  It answered so many of my persistent questions about Bachar and early J Tree climbing history. 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6hAhaH8j5zUbbA61SfW9pY?si=PsN3A1vzRYylNc-70UiEPg

It was also really helpful for me as a climber… things Bob has coached me on virtually every time we’ve been out but maybe I’ve not followed through : to focus on flow and relaxation, and precision. John said that his intention every time he climbed a route was to use “one less calorie “, to economize his strength by knowing his route—no surprises. He partly accomplished this through repetition.

this episode brought color to the stories of Bob, Guy and Jan.

Bachar also shared a story about Bridwell and a trip involving an enormous amount of LSD.  Has anyone climbed on acid?  It’s very hard to fathom how that could have helped.  

fossilwrote:

Hey Ward,

Why doncha just shove that thing over the hill.

Don't jinx him. Imagine if he got out there all ketoed up, with a skeletor grin, ready to send, and it had eroded and rolled down the hill.

It looks like a walrus in that picture.

Lori, climbing on acid?

Um, golly gee, seems that I vaguely recall rumors, but seriously now, who would be crazy enough to do such a thing? I'm sure this is simply more "bitd" folklore worked up by over-the-hill geezers seeking to embellish the legends of yore. 

Isn’t that right, guys?

Seriously, I mean, FUK

Here’s some stuff I found…

Werner Braun:

WTF, ingesting acid is fatal, leave it in the battery where it belongs

Well if you are breathing then you are projecting that psychedelic consciousness of your own breath onto the outside inanimate objects. Acid is just your own internal illusion amplified and projected onto the outside world. If drugs were the way to the truth then drugs would have had to be superior. No one ever has achieved enlightenment  from drugs.

Largo:

 Werner wrote: "No one ever has achieved enlightenment from drugs." But for a time we certainly gave it the old "college try."

Bachar:

 First ascent of "Crank City" on the So High boulder at Josh! I was tripping with Yabo, Mari, Lechlinski, and Erikson. Whew! We were all bouldering pretty good that day.... Oh yeah, the "Acid Crack" on top-rope. That sheeet sure makes you strong!!!

BVB:

I Used to solo quite a bit while frying on massive doses of MDA. Done lots of it. It's fun. One particularly memorable experience involved soloing "Dandelion" with Tarbousier and then Downclimbing "Toe Jam." And then there was this escapade that involved soloing "Damper" in patent leather saddle shoes while wearing a pair of turquoise cat-eye sunglasses (the Love Glasses, long story) then downclimbing it, while the Colorado crew in the campsite below - which included Sherman and the Eldo Prancer All-Stars, first time we'd ever met -- heckled and hooted and screamed "YER Gonna Die!!" or words to that effect. I was so baked I glowed in the dark. When I got down I oozed into their camp, bummed a smoke and a beer, and proceeded to babble and channel the spirit of the SoCal Overlord in that extra-animated ultra-friendly "I Love Everybody!" way that only MDA can inspire. They looked at me as though I was from another planet, and I was. Saddle shoes, argyle socks, plaid silk vest, white button-down long sleeved dress shirt, crazy long hair, the Love Glasses, whole body buzzing at 10,000 Khz. Good times, true story. Spring Break, 1982.

Then there’s this…

 It has been theorized that the stimulant that Herman Buhl used when he became the only human in history to reach a virgin 8,000+m summit, Pervitin, is a stimulant that in high doses can act like a form of LSD.

That would certainly explain the conversation he had with his dead cousin.

So I guess we can conclude, as unbelievable as it seems, it would appear that it may have happened at least a few times by a few crazed individuals in no way representative of the climbing populace of the day.

(tee hee hee snicker guffaw)

Still new stuff to find out in the woods around here.  Just dusted this one off today.  Looks V2 ish from the low start but I need to hike some pads out there and find out.

Yer gunna fry!   

Fossil…. Wow, you did your research.

I was always a little… “delicate”… on acid so  I can’t imagine wanting to climb on LSD especially here. This place is already psychedelic enough. So that was then I guess, and for those who could constitutionally handle it.

In Part of this interview Bachar stated that “Stonemaster” really meant being stoned. Somehow I never thought of that. But I did take note when he said that while Bridwell was visionary and could see beautiful new lines, he couldn’t always do them himself. So maybe eating sheets of acid, if Bachar is telling the story correctly, might not have helped Bridwell’s climbing.?. 

This may sound strange fossil, but I have to be careful here to hold onto my head in this desert. The first time I drove through with kids in my car I definitely felt the altered state like nowhere else.  It makes sense that this early pack of 19 year-old Climbers in the early 70s would be doing what the rest of hippie-dom was doing – – getting loaded.

I don’t think I’ve lost the gift of LSD, but I’m much more sober today in the best way. Right?  How do you feel about this?

PS understanding a bit more about the rites of passage for the Stone Masters makes me wonder about some of the tangent Climbers, who probably didn’t get loaded. I Imagine Tobin was one of those. And my guess is Hauser probably wasn’t the LSD type.  Just a guess.  

fossilwrote:

Hey Ward,

Why doncha just shove that thing over the hill.

That's why Ward is trying to loose weight--he is worried that if he is too heavy he might pull the boulder down as he is pulling around to top out.

I may or may not have done a fungi vision quest ridge hike last fall and certainly would not have wanted to try and do real climbing. My balance did not feel right on the techy stuff with high consequences.  It may well have been much different if I was in my 20's.

got out quickly to a crag near my house with a friend and ran up a 9+ that I put up last summer.  Good thing my friend was leading as I  felt like I was working really hard on 2nd. 

fossilwrote:

If this your art, Fossil?  I like it.  Is there a meaning of the little antibodies sticking to the surfaces?

fossilwrote:

 Herman Buhl used when he became the only human in history to reach a virgin 8,000+m summit,

the other 13 virgin 8K summits were all reached by non humans I guess?  See this is the type of enlightenment one gets when tripping balls.

dragonswrote:

Gabe, I'd love to hear about the bigger objectives that you've done.

However, "get in shape if you have to and go for it" is just not possible for some people with wear-and-tear injuries, regardless of age.
I'm currently in my 60s, 5'0". My youthful weight was about 105 lbs, and I am now scrawny at ~95 lbs (struggling to gain muscle, which might require HRT, which is not going to happen).
When I read about the pack weights that people carry on such excursions, it sounds impossible. I can deal with a fifteen-pound pack. Twenty pounds is probably my upper limit. I tried training with that, and I get back pain (the pack is resting on my hips, mind you). Then of course there's the knee pain that springs up on long hikes (can't get a diagnosis, so there's way to address it).
You get the idea.

Finding a trustworthy partner would be difficult, in fact I have no idea how. No way I'd do this type of objective with a rando off the forums. And someone who is strong enough is probably not going to find it appealing to take along a far weaker partner, one who can't share an equal burden. My bf gave this type of thing a hard "no". He's more sensible.

If there's someone in this thread that I "know" who'd be interested in doing something like this, feel free to hit me up and we can discuss it. At this point, if I really decide I want to do a longer obective, it probably means hiring a sherpa   

Probably the biggest such objective i ever did was The Diamond, in RMNP. I was mostly doing single pitch sport climbing at the time, though i also did a reasonable amount of trad. A friend of a friend from out of town said he would be visiting, and wanted to do the diamond, and asked if i was game. I knew i was totally not in shape for it, but the trip was some time out, so i had time to whip myself into shape. I did a number of Alpine rock climbs, of increasing difficulty and (more importantly) with increasingly long approaches. When he came to visit we did a couple of smaller objectives to see if we worked together well (and for me to see if i felt ready) and then we did it. 

I know for lots of folks here who have done much bigger Alpine adventures it will seem no big deal, but the point is that to me it was way outside of my comfort zone at first, but i got there in time, and had an incredibly memorable time. One of my best days climbing ever. 

Many of the things i did in preparation were great in their own right, like the Petit Grepon.

Edited to add:  I only had time to answer your question directly when I first posted, but I also wanted to put the above in context.  I do hear you, and I understand that what I'm writing about was what I did at forty, living in Colorado.  I don't claim that the same thing can be be done so easily at 65, with all the wear-and-tear injuries that come along with that, and living in central NY state.  So don't read the above as a prescription, but simply as an idea - that getting out of your comfort zone and trying something "big" (big for you, whatever that means) can provide lasting satisfaction.  How or even if such a thing might be accomplished, for anyone here, I have no idea.  I don't even know for sure what it would mean for me, today (though I might have an inkling).  So take that all with a big grain of salt.

GO

Last pic from our road trip

Kill by numbers, Joe’s Valley, UT

Lori, being a Mormon, Hauser didn't do drugs.  He would drink a little bit.  Waugh was on the fireman path and never did drugs or drank.  I was thru with getting stoned by the time I started climbing and this was part of why we all climbed together a lot.  At the same time, most everyone else did get stoned and it was never a problem for me.  I honestly think Keesee belays better when stoned.  But then since he used to pretty much always be stoned, he has had lots off practice.

Go look at Hot Rocks and realize that it was climbed by someone on 11 tabs of acid.  At least that is how I remember it.

Full Corn Moon over Tahquitz

Lori I liked your burning man post. I didn’t expect to. Was in Tuolumne so catching up. Also liked Werner’s take on vitamin L. 

Mark E Dixonwrote:

Last pic from our road trip

Kill by numbers, Joe’s Valley, UT

I like the looks of that, Mark. Keep it up.

To others: Do any of you JT people run into John Stannard?  I think he lives there. Atkinson wrote about John's part in the clean climbing revolution in America. And Stannard was an early practitioner of multiple attempts at a particular trad problem - think Foops. Interestingly, bouldering was undergoing a similar reformation as Jim Holloway began devoting considerable time and effort to some boulder problems. 

Stannard and I are the same age, both Ancient of Days.   

Yup climbed on acid several times,mushrooms too. Drove from the front range of Colorado to eastern Kansas on vitiman L once as well, just semed like the thing to do.

Ward’s boulder looks like a sand worm. 

Eric Engbergwrote:

the other 13 virgin 8K summits were all reached by non humans I guess?  See this is the type of enlightenment one gets when tripping balls.

Solo summit success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_German%E2%80%93Austrian_Nanga_Parbat_expedition

Thanks for that, Jan. It’s all making a lot more sense now.  

Philip… I agree, the Burning Man article really touched me, too. I’ve had friends who have gone to burning man annually, and I never had any inclination to do so. But reading this Facebook post reminded me of a certain kind of freedom and connection that’s hard to come by as an adult.  I’ve been wondering if he ever found her.

I had no idea the expected crowd was 70,000 to 80,000 people. It shows the hunger so many people have for something real. But taking a week off the grind to put on your hippie garb and do the burn short changes people of the real deal. Many of us here have made space for this our whole lives, with climbing and love of wilderness being a piece of it.