New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

dragonswrote: 

Ten years ago, I was very interested in doing adventure climbing (treks involving one or more days of effort). But, none of my partners were interested. And at this point, I'm probably too realistic to attempt stuff like that. Maybe.

Like you, much of my climbing has been cragging. However i have done a few bigger objectives, and they are truly cherished memories. If you get a chance, with the right partner, get in shape if you have to and go for it. It's worth it. 

GO

In Joshua Tree, when you go out climbing, you will be within a 30 minute walk of the car for most areas. Wonderland is longer, maybe an hour or so, and some climbing/bouldering on Queen Mtn is much longer, two or more hours each way. But in general, the climbing at Josh is pretty accessible especially now that there are paved roads and parking areas. 

Used to walk from Hidden Valley 45 years ago unless going into the Wonderland, or out to Hall of Horrors, Saddle Rocks, or Ryan, or Belle.... Now we drive to the nearest parking and walk for a few minutes.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Ward, you will be 'transparent' if you loose another 8 lbs!!!

Cold rain but no thunder up along the St. Lawrence on the edge of the Gaspe. Hoping the weather improves, as predicted, for the rest of the week, so we can play outside---maybe even a bit of climbing.

The week looks good after today, good thing as I have a cabin that I've been promising to work on for a few months and I  need the good weather.  Going for a long hike today, possibly the 5 summits around Jordan pond in the rain. 

Ward, you and your weight "problems" are sounding a bit over the top, be careful on that. Lose too much weight and you'll crush yourself on the approach. 

GabeOwrote:

Like you, much of my climbing has been cragging. However i have done a few bigger objectives, and they are truly cherished memories. If you get a chance, with the right partner, get in shape if you have to and go for it. It's worth it. 

GO

Gabe, I'd love to hear about the bigger objectives that you've done.

However, "get in shape if you have to and go for it" is just not possible for some people with wear-and-tear injuries, regardless of age.
I'm currently in my 60s, 5'0". My youthful weight was about 105 lbs, and I am now scrawny at ~95 lbs (struggling to gain muscle, which might require HRT, which is not going to happen).
When I read about the pack weights that people carry on such excursions, it sounds impossible. I can deal with a fifteen-pound pack. Twenty pounds is probably my upper limit. I tried training with that, and I get back pain (the pack is resting on my hips, mind you). Then of course there's the knee pain that springs up on long hikes (can't get a diagnosis, so there's way to address it).
You get the idea.

Finding a trustworthy partner would be difficult, in fact I have no idea how. No way I'd do this type of objective with a rando off the forums. And someone who is strong enough is probably not going to find it appealing to take along a far weaker partner, one who can't share an equal burden. My bf gave this type of thing a hard "no". He's more sensible.

If there's someone in this thread that I "know" who'd be interested in doing something like this, feel free to hit me up and we can discuss it. At this point, if I really decide I want to do a longer obective, it probably means hiring a sherpa   

M Mwrote:

Ward, you and your weight "problems" are sounding a bit over the top, be careful on that. Lose too much weight and you'll crush yourself on the approach. 

Weight is a sensitive issue for many people, and I get it.  But it does matter if you want to climb hard, although every person’s “ideal” weight will be different.  I climbed my best in my 30’s between 148 and 154 pounds at 5’9’.”  148 was probably not healthy at the time, but at 154 I felt strong.  I am at 158 pounds now at age 64, and I know that I don’t have as much muscle mass, so 150 seems a reasonable goal.  We will see.

Ward Smithwrote:

M Mwrote:

Ward, you and your weight "problems" are sounding a bit over the top, be careful on that. Lose too much weight and you'll crush yourself on the approach. 

Weight is a sensitive issue for many people, and I get it.  But it does matter if you want to climb hard, although every person’s “ideal” weight will be different.  I climbed my best in my 30’s between 148 and 154 pounds at 5’9’.”  148 was probably not healthy at the time, but at 154 I felt strong.  I am at 158 pounds now at age 64, and I know that I don’t have as much muscle mass, so 150 seems a reasonable goal.  We will see.

Borderline unhealthy weight sounds like a very fine line to be walking at 64. Butter that toast in the morning, better yet butter the coffee like the LA Lakers do.

pretty sure Ward does not eat bread? which makes it rather impossible to butter the toast...  I admire his results and climbing abilities but that path is not something to aspire for most folks. By contrast at My Shodan and Nidan tests in my mid 20s I weighed 164lbs. Now I am 195 ish .  I would be estatic to lose 15lbs and settle in at  180lbs I actually did my best climbing in my 50s at about 183...   I feel that the biggest obstacle besides willpower is work...  My best fitness happened when we were on the road for two months hiking and or climbing every day and eating healthy.  work beats me up and leaves me mentally weak for comfort food. 

Re: carrying a PLB. Lori, you mentioned it might be a lengthy wait to get help if you were injured. This is true, but consider if you were truly immobilized by an injury and could not get yourself out under your own power. Plenty of people have died in Colorado from falls, injuries while hiking alone, and even near an established road or trail, search and rescue cannot always locate them. There have been a few already this year (found near trailheads, months after going missing). With a PLB, it’s not just the SOS button, but searchers can track the device to locate you (even if it’s just recovery - helps families get closure).

A family friend went missing on a hike several years ago - last fall they found some items of hers just off a trail in a boulder field, but we will never really know what happened. My dad did a lot of solo hiking and I got him an early generation SPOT (this was 2010 or so), it gave me peace of mind and I could see where he was if overdue (which happens frequently as we all know).

I carry a PLB anytime I’m not roadside - especially if I’m alone trail running, biking, or hiking, not just climbing. I turn it on, put it in the pack and forget about it. Have never had to use it for myself, but have activated it for others when I came upon their situation. My friend Kurt who passed on Mt Cook last year had a PLB but it was turned off, maybe to save battery? Or possibly it was damaged in the fall. It would have been very helpful to have had that signal during the search - would have increased safety for the rescuers who were trying to get up there in bad weather.

I think as an older person being out there on your own, it isn’t a bad idea to have with you. The hope is you never have to use it - but nobody plans to have an accident. And if you’re in an area with complex terrain (like J Tree), searchers could have a hard time locating you if you were unconscious and hidden in the rocks. 

Bb Cc wrote:

Horse packing is a thing to, you can walk and the packers and horses manage gear, food, tents etc. Then you base camp and day hike. Looks like a beautiful way to access....

Human porters are available in many places also. Horse and mule packers churn up the trails and leave disgusting and long lasting piles of shit every step of the way. The difference in trail condition pre and post packing season is remarkable. It’s literally a situation where a small minority of trail users (packers, clients) benefit and everyone else is forced to deal with their shit and dust littering the trails. 

horse shit is not disgusting. its just grass.  they may well damage the trails but getting all eeew over horse shit is a city kid thing... 

Ward Smithwrote:

M Mwrote:

Weight is a sensitive issue for many people, and I get it.  But it does matter if you want to climb hard, although every person’s “ideal” weight will be different.  I climbed my best in my 30’s between 148 and 154 pounds at 5’9’.”  148 was probably not healthy at the time, but at 154 I felt strong.  I am at 158 pounds now at age 64, and I know that I don’t have as much muscle mass, so 150 seems a reasonable goal.  We will see.

Edit at the top:  Jesus, what a rambling post from me!  Sorry about that! Not enough coffee for me yet on a Sunday morning!  Read at your own risk!!!

First off Ward:  Good on you for dropping the alcohol, even for a bit!  I'm not a "holy roller" anti-drinker by any means but I truly believe that with all of the latest published data that not drinking, or only drinking small amounts occasionally, is one of the healthiest things that one can do.    

And where are you going for your bouldering trip?

I'm 5'10.5" (never made 5'11''!) and currently stuck between 170 and 175 at age 53.  Damn!  

When I was road racing bikes (you want to talk about a subset of society unhealthily obsessed with weight!) in my late teens and early 20's I was 150-154 and that felt perfect.  I so wish that I could get back to the low 160's.  150's would be unhealthy for me but 160-165 would be ideal, I think. I know what I need to do (stop nighttime snacking) but I must be getting weak because I just don't seem to be able to make myself do it!  

And for long backcountry objectives: I'm trying to keep some base fitness with hiking as I still need to get back to the Mt. Whitney portal to do the East Face and East Butt!  I've hiked up there twice now in the 1990's and the first time got lost and climbed the wrong mountain (I'm not known for my navigation skills!) and the second time my partner was sick at the base so I just solo'd the Mountaineer's Route. Planning that trip for summer 2027 when I leave the Army and before starting full-time civilian work.  It's going to be a HAUL! 

Would also love to do the Armadillo in Baxter and go back and finish the final 1.5 pitches of the Petit Grepon in RMNP (had to retreat in a thunder and hail and lightening storm mid-way up pitch 7 a few years ago).  

So good for me to have goals out there as I am such a goal-oriented type of person but I do find myself moving the goalposts a bit closer these days (I've always, like so many others, had dreams of doing an El Cap route, but those days are quickly disappearing.  So much work for a 5.10 top rope climber like me with all the weight and hauling, etc.).  We'll see!

Rain yesterday and today so no climbing.  Did do a ton of Taekwondo yesterday, though.  I've been training for over 33 years non-stop now and I really think that it helps so much with core and flexibility.  We did a morning class at our local gym (with my two youngest kiddos--all five of my kids have done it with me over the past 12 years off and on) and then a crazy hard evening class in NJ with an old Korean 9th degree who put us through the paces for 2.5 hours straight with only a 5 minute break.  Uniform and belt were so soaked you could literally wring water out of them at the end.  Had to hang dry my belt when I got home and it had salt deposits on it this morning!

Anyways, Okay!  Have a great (rainy) day everyone!

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

horse shit is not disgusting. its just grass.  they may well damage the trails but getting all eeew over horse shit is a city kid thing... 

Wrong, here in the Eastern Sierra, pack stock are often fed some form of processed food that doesn’t break down quickly and builds up over time. I see the difference in how shit from grass fed cattle/horses break down. I live in an area with ranches and free range cattle and the composition and degradation of the shit is obvious. Come on out for a visit and I’ll show you around. I bet your opinion may change after a few miles.

The biggest city I’ve lived in was North Conway, NH and I could only handle the crowds for a few months. lol 

Buck Rogerswrote:

First off Ward:  Good on you for dropping the alcohol, even for a bit!  I'm not a "holy roller" anti-drinker by any means but I truly believe that with all of the latest published data that not drinking, or only drinking small amounts occasionally, is one of the healthiest things that one can do.    

And where are you going for your bouldering trip?

This will be my fifth trip specifically to climb this boulder from the low sit.  It is about V5 from the stand but maybe V8 from the low start.  It is at a remote cliff in Arizona that we have been putting routes up on for 11 years now (80 sport and trad routes so far).

I stick to a keto diet with eggs, dairy, fish, and meat (in that order), with a few vegetables (mostly sauerkraut). Plenty of exercise and average nine hours of sleep, so alcohol is definitely the low hanging fruit for me.  Not planning on quitting forever, but definitely until the trip.  I definitely get faster recovery from training in addition to the weight loss.

Daniel Shivelywrote:

Wrong, here in the Eastern Sierra, pack stock are often fed some form of processed food that doesn’t break down quickly and builds up over time. I see the difference in how shit from grass fed cattle/horses break down. I live in an area with ranches and free range cattle and the composition and degradation of the shit is obvious. Come on out for a visit and I’ll show you around. I bet your opinion may change after a few miles.

The biggest city I’ve lived in was North Conway, NH and I could only handle the crowds for a few months. lol 

Having climbed and hiked a fair amount in the Eastern Sierra, the situation described by Daniel Shively is all too familiar.  

This is for Dragons,

If you are looking for adventure and do not want trek for miles with a heavy pack, I would say... 

go bag a desert tower.

Even the most lowly of the bunch Owl Rock in Arches 5.8 (approximately gunks 5.5) a mere 100 feet from a parking lot can deliver in a big way. For instance, me and a bud did it one evening after doing Ancient Art and one minute we are looking to the west wondering, “why does it look so orange over there?” and the next we are in the most gawd awful gale you can imagine with sand blowing everywhere. The climb is only one pitch with a rap station a bit below the top and I’m more than half way, so I press on. 

The two pieces of gear that I have in is all that I get because every time my belayer gives me enough slack to clip another, off it goes toward Colorado threatening to take him with it. Fortunately the climb is in a featured corner, so stemming opportunities abound because the rope drag is so horrendous that I have to pull up sizable chunks of slack and pay it out to myself in order to continue to climb. I repeated this enough times to make it to the rap station, even going so far as to do it once more so I could at least crouch on the summit hanging on for dear life and slither back to the rap. I have my bud lower me while I tram the rope to get my two pieces, when I take the last piece out the pull of the wind becomes too much so I let loose of the other strand figuring one of us flying off towards Colorado is better than both of us. I go flying half way around the tower coming to a gentle touchdown off to the east. If at any point had we let go of the rope before most of it was on the ground I’ve no doubt it would have been the last we saw of it. The wind continued to blow all night and when I awoke I was nearly buried in a dune of fine red sand.

Key takeaways 

Adventure is where you find it and not necessarily at the end of a long trek.

If you stay still for long enough the desert will swallow you.

Ward Smithwrote:

Hey Ward,

Why doncha just shove that thing over the hill.

I feel almost as invested in Wards Boulder as Ward is!    I really believe this is the year! It’s been such an inspiration to know that you are working all year for a goal, over repeated years.

On Sunday mornings, I like to come to this place to just be. This is my favorite wall with my favorite route. It’s a bit of a scramble to get here and I have encountered rattlesnakes curled up under rocks that I was about to grab.There’s a manzanita forest back here and beautiful granite. But mostly there’s this soaring very steep wall with 100 foot routes.  WHY do I always have this place all to myself?  

I’m still trying to sort it all out. Next to my route is one done by Charles Cole that is much harder. A few routes down is one that Bob put up with his wife many years ago and that one really calls to me. Another 50 feet away is the one I would dearly love to climb, called compassion of the elephants.   I mean, I could spend the entirety of this coming season right here and never get bored.  And there’s a vibe… I think it’s kind of a sacred place.

The crux on this route is 3/4 of the way up. It’s difficult slab. Last year I got confused with finding the one tiny finger crimp that allows you to move up and it’s gotta go fast. I popped off slapping around for that spot.  Every second spent in a precarious balance fishing around for a hold is just a sure way to fall.  

I don’t know if it’s helpful really to keep reminding myself that time is short and there is not time to learn everything and do everything. But it does help to hone in on really making sure your heart is in the thing you are doing.

Erika… so nice to see you here again! You have been missed!  Now as to your reminder to carry a PBS so they can  find my remains…  

But actually, you are spot on.  I think I asked this a few thousand posts ago – – does the new satellite feature on the iPhone work just as well? I’ve tried to test it out but I’m just not sure. Anytime I am out of cell range I get a window that pops up, asking me if I want to use the satellite feature.  I tried it once and it seemed to work. But people do die here and it’s usually because they have wandered off and got stuck somewhere and dehydrated, and sometimes never found. So until I know for sure that my phone can do the job I carry both and still not positive that would work if you are stuck down in a crevice and covered with boulders.  Now I am at a place where I’m almost too comfortable and just have to really remind myself to pull back.

Also… No one else’s problem but for sure it’s mine. There’s no amount of help that could arrive in time for a diabetic situation. It’s just not an option to have a low blood sugar while out hiking. I had my first severe low two days ago at home– – nothing like that has happened in years. It’s  just touch and go. 

Thanks Lori! I still lurk, don’t contribute much since I haven’t been climbing. Glad to see other people getting after it. I’ve rediscovered rowing (single and double sculling) after a 15 year break (joined a new club near my house that has an incredible lake and rack space for my boat) so that has been the focus this summer. Maybe I’ll get back to climbing when the rowing season ends.

I haven’t tried the satellite feature on the iPhone so can’t speak to that. 

Ship Twrote:

I think that most climbs in Yosemite at the 5.6 grade can be climbed by anyone with even a little bit of climbing experience, mostly because those climbs are usually low angle and have enough good holds to make it manageable for most. 

I was wondering whether Gunks 5.2 = Yosemite 5.6, which would imply that the Gunks grades are very sandbagged.

From my experience the necessity for skill becomes apparent at 5.7.  To climb valley 5.7 you need a little bit of skill at crack climbing and some slab climbing ability on granite, and some small amount of physical pulling power.

Btw, there are many climbs in the 5.6 range in Yosemite that have very reasonable approaches and descents.

Maybe 75 years ago and below 5.9?

There’s some regional variation, but once you adjust to the grading they appear to be reasonable and somewhat transferable.

Li Huwrote:

Maybe 75 years ago and below 5.9?

There’s some regional variation, but once you adjust to the grading they appear to be reasonable and somewhat transferable.

I think a lot of the challenge in relating to different ratings is the consistency and quality of gear placements. I realize that the difficulty of the moves are what (in theory) describe the rating of a climb, and even though this is usually accurate, a climbers overall emotional experience is often the cause of confusion. For me, it required practice and focus to remain calm and relaxed. Once I could consistently do this, the ratings seemed more consistent. To prove this to yourself, find a route you’re psyched about that’s just within your comfortable onsight level, lead the pitch, then do a top rope burn while cleaning your gear. I’ll bet at least 7 out of 10 times, the climb will be perceived as easier on top rope. A wise stonemaster once told me “put your foot on the hold and stand on it”.