New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

Lori Milas wrote:

we’ve got it here too, Nick. I keep an air purifier going at all times and a humidifier when the air gets too dry. You may not have that problem with dryness. But my new happy place is your field of sunflowers. There can be no smoke there.   

Unless you have a great purifier, I'd seriously consider leaving the area for a while if you can. Supposedly it is like smoking a half pack of cigarettes a day. If you are trying to do strenuous activities, I would imagine you will be sucking in more.

Everybody tells me I should move out west, but at least for now, here in RI there has been very little wildfire threat and we have gotten very little of the smoke. I'll put up with some rained out climbing days and more route cleaning for that. We did have a fire last year that was fairly big for little Roady though, so maybe it is coming soon. I think we are all going to be living under ground a lot more in the future.

We're getting a break from smoke this year after two to three weeks of constant smoke for the last 7 or 8 years.  Mostly due to fires west of us.  When it gets too intense we head for Oregon and camp on the cost.

Permabeta wrote:

Absolutely. But as the elder statespeople around here can tell you, the definition of “athletic” definitely changes with age.

73.5. I know. 

M Sprague wrote:

Thanks for the title. I will look it up.

I used to go to meditation retreats when I was young at the Abode, a Sufi community at the old Shaker village in New Lebanon, NY, back when Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan was alive. Boy, driving home after a week of that and stopping off at a McDonald's highway rest stop was really weird. It felt like I was around a bunch of freaky aliens. (still does a little, actually)

 They had a program for seniors to come and live there so they had a supportive community in the latter part of their life. I always thought that was a great idea if you had a similar mindset. I respected Pir Vilayet, but I have never been too into the guru/groupie thing, so even then half the time I would hike up the mountain and meditate by myself. Last time I went was a week long retreat where you didn't speak. I lasted 2 days before I got distracted  by a girls fascinating breasts and lost the program.. We ended up blowing off the silence idea and wandering off and didn't do much meditating   

I have always been attracted to aspects of the Shaker community, even the style of their furniture, cabinetry and buildings. I saw really early footage of some shakers, and it was funny how similar some of the younger ones were to hippies of the late 60'; same hair, humor, just no tie-dye.

There are some good YouTube videos - one in particular - on the last Shaker community. Two Shakers left,  86-year-old sister Ruth and a 60-something man (Can't remember his name), he had some interesting and honest insights on living a spiritual life. Thomas Merton had an interesting take on the Shakers. Wish I could find it, but I have every book Merton wrote except The Seven Story Mountain (Read it, didn't like it), so . . .

WF WF51 wrote:

There are some good YouTube videos - one in particular - on the last Shaker community. Two Shakers left,  86-year-old sister Ruth and a 60-something man (Can't remember his name), he had some interesting and honest insights on living a spiritual life. Thomas Merton had an interesting take on the Shakers. Wish I could find it, but I have every book Merton wrote except The Seven Story Mountain (Read it, didn't like it), so . . .

Seeking Paradise: The Spirit of the Shakers.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I getting sick of this damn fire smoke. my voice is starting to be affected... 

Nick we’ve lived with thick smoke off and on for decades here in the west. Like Lori said get an air purifier. It makes a world of difference in your house. Still sucks to be outside tho when it’s really bad, and should be avoided. The new normal when it comes to wildfires sucks too.

First birthday party of a local bouldering gym with a dress up theme. Almost no one dressed up. I went as Carl The Clambering Clown wearing my (covered) tights that were once banned from a local climbing gym due to a customer complaint.

https://youtube.com/shorts/sn1Kf8ChtN4?si=Vp1dQ-Ow04RzFEZd

I found a day this week with no smoke, got a coworker out on a local lake for some zipping around in 8-10mph wind 

10 days of no climbing, I'm getting soft

STOKED!!!!!

Edit to add:

Neener neener neener

Lori Milas wrote:

...

Give it a try. See how many can pass this easy test.

  slackbow.com/sblock

Lori, after climbing this morning, Bill and I both took the test. We passed it with flying colors! My sense was that this is a test of your quad strength more than balance per se. Well, you need quad strength to balance.

We climbed Dennis this morning. And then we downclimbed the Radcliffe Descent, where chimney technique is useful.
The view from the top has improved, as has our air quality. I hope that's a sign that the wildfires are waning.
Looking up Dennis as Bill pulled the rope:

Rewarding view and breeze up top:

Idaho Bob wrote:

We're getting a break from smoke this year after two to three weeks of constant smoke for the last 7 or 8 years.  Mostly due to fires west of us.  When it gets too intense we head for Oregon and camp on the cost.

Shhhhh....

And be real quiet talking about the heat* this year, too.

*Almost no 100+ days.

Okay, old people stuff.

First, thanks all, for the replies on training in dotage. I'll also just pull out "Younger Next Year". Remember that, Lori? From probably the first iteration of this thread!

So today, I got a dexa scan for bone density. Last year, it said osteopenia. I think that surprised the doc. Me too. So, been taking D. But not really changing much else. I'm not sedentary, after all, but geez....

So....

Now's when I probably need to be more deliberate about this aging thing. Get it together.

I've asked my doc to ask for a dexa scan for body composition. Insurance won't cover that, but the office said it's only $75. That will give me a baseline, and hopefully, numbers to improve on. 

And.... it's yet another thing that irks me. 

Body composition. Not covered.

Weight loss drugs. Not covered.

Diabetes? You betcha!

Oh well.

Part of me was really tempted to ask her, why not just push it away from healthy? Get that prediabetes all the way there? Then get meds that get me back from that???

H.

Old lady H wrote:

STOKED!!!!!

 

Edit to add:

Neener neener neener

Good for you!  I haven’t been there since the 90’s, great mix of trad and sport.

Old lady H wrote:

Okay, old people stuff.

First, thanks all, for the replies on training in dotage. I'll also just pull out "Younger Next Year". Remember that, Lori? From probably the first iteration of this thread!

So today, I got a dexa scan for bone density. Last year, it said osteopenia. I think that surprised the doc. Me too. So, been taking D. But not really changing much else. I'm not sedentary, after all, but geez....

So....

Now's when I probably need to be more deliberate about this aging thing. Get it together.

I've asked my doc to ask for a dexa scan for body composition. Insurance won't cover that, but the office said it's only $75. That will give me a baseline, and hopefully, numbers to improve on. 

And.... it's yet another thing that irks me. 

Body composition. Not covered.

Weight loss drugs. Not covered.

Diabetes? You betcha!

Oh well.

Part of me was really tempted to ask her, why not just push it away from healthy? Get that prediabetes all the way there? Then get meds that get me back from that???

H.

Hey Helen...  good for you getting an updated DEXA!  Hope you'll share the results.  I think the weight loss drugs will soon be covered, if they are not already.  Tony is on Ozempic... 3 weeks in he has lost almost 15 pounds.  Appears to be effortless.  

Younger Next Year is STILL my go to favorite book.  There are fancier and more current reads science-wise... but this one was really all I ever needed.  It has SO impacted my life.  

The two pieces of advice that guide me every day... 1) "Make It Your New Job.  We urge you NOT to start gradually.  It is far better to make a sharp break with the past and a serious committment to the future.  We urge you as strongly as we can to make this (exercise 6 days a week until the day you die) your new job, your single most important job."   2) find a kedge.  The 'kedge' is something inspiring and hard enough to get you up and out, working towards that thing you really want to do.  

Sounds like you are on a roll, Helen!  YAY!  Stay with it!   

---

My thoughts on this are evolving, and i hope they don't make me insufferable. I love my doctors.  But this whole medical mindset is no longer a fit for me and I get irritated. 

I have an upcoming appointment with a new doctor soon.  They sent over 6 long forms to fill out beforehand. The questions went over every inch of my body, every possible malady, every medication, anything that could possibly be wrong.  

After filling out all those forms I realized this gives a very skewed perspective.  (In fact, last televisit I had with a Kaiser doc before even looking up he read "I see we have a 71 year old diabetic with Celiac."  Ok, you ALSO have an extremely active rock climber with excellent sleep, nutrition, and emotional engagement. Start with that.)   

What if those forms focused on how's your strength, sleep, joyfulness, sex, endurance, aptitude... in a celebratory way... and the doctor's job was to create more and better of all the good things. To help clear out the obstacles to glowing health.  To take care of whatever disease-states may be hindering a person.  To not focus on 'what's wrong' but on 'what's right'.  You could get the same amount of doctoring done, with a more positive and helpful outcome.  It could be a team effort to make you the best you can be.  

And when I think about it... Functional Medicine docs are no better.  Maybe even worse.  Just looking for a different set of bugs and ailments. 

---

Carl, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  

My hikes are getting longer, so my podcasts are more and more in depth.  Today, I listened to 2 hours of conversation with Luc van Loon, PhD who is an expert in skeletal muscle metabolism. Given his exhaustive studies in humans labs over decades, it was interesting that his verdict on collagen was 'probably of no value as long as you get enough proline and glycine in your diet'.  And... exercised muscle in seniors is as responsive to protein synthesis as that in younger people.  "It's the exercise that makes you respond way more to the same or less amount of protein you ingest." putting the lie to the idea that we seniors have SUCH anabolic resistance there is no way to increase muscle. 

When Rgold and I were mere youth we got started in the kind of athletics that led to bouldering. Here we exercise on the first gymnastic equipment designed by Johann Gutsmuth. He was a delightful instructor and we called him "Uncle Johnny".  To think, modern artistic gymnastics grew out of this!

I am hanging on a rope from a tree, while a young Rich is doing a no-hands showoff on a pole behind me. 

Lori Milas wrote:

Hey Helen...  good for you getting an updated DEXA!  Hope you'll share the results.  I think the weight loss drugs will soon be covered, if they are not already.  Tony is on Ozempic... 3 weeks in he has lost almost 15 pounds.  Appears to be effortless.  

Younger Next Year is STILL my go to favorite book.  There are fancier and more current reads science-wise... but this one was really all I ever needed.  It has SO impacted my life.  

The two pieces of advice that guide me every day... 1) "Make It Your New Job.  We urge you NOT to start gradually.  It is far better to make a sharp break with the past and a serious committment to the future.  We urge you as strongly as we can to make this (exercise 6 days a week until the day you die) your new job, your single most important job."   2) find a kedge.  The 'kedge' is something inspiring and hard enough to get you up and out, working towards that thing you really want to do.  

Sounds like you are on a roll, Helen!  YAY!  Stay with it!   

---

My thoughts on this are evolving, and i hope they don't make me insufferable. I love my doctors.  But this whole medical mindset is no longer a fit for me and I get irritated. 

I have an upcoming appointment with a new doctor soon.  They sent over 6 long forms to fill out beforehand. The questions went over every inch of my body, every possible malady, every medication, anything that could possibly be wrong.  

After filling out all those forms I realized this gives a very skewed perspective.  (In fact, last televisit I had with a Kaiser doc before even looking up he read "I see we have a 71 year old diabetic with Celiac."  Ok, you ALSO have an extremely active rock climber with excellent sleep, nutrition, and emotional engagement. Start with that.)   

What if those forms focused on how's your strength, sleep, joyfulness, sex, endurance, aptitude... in a celebratory way... and the doctor's job was to create more and better of all the good things. To help clear out the obstacles to glowing health.  To take care of whatever disease-states may be hindering a person.  To not focus on 'what's wrong' but on 'what's right'.  You could get the same amount of doctoring done, with a more positive and helpful outcome.  It could be a team effort to make you the best you can be.  

And when I think about it... Functional Medicine docs are no better.  Maybe even worse.  Just looking for a different set of bugs and ailments. 

---

Carl, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  

My hikes are getting longer, so my podcasts are more and more in depth.  Today, I listened to 2 hours of conversation with Luc van Loon, PhD who is an expert in skeletal muscle metabolism. Given his exhaustive studies in humans labs over decades, it was interesting that his verdict on collagen was 'probably of no value as long as you get enough proline and glycine in your diet'.  And... exercised muscle in seniors is as responsive to protein synthesis as that in younger people.  "It's the exercise that makes you respond way more to the same or less amount of protein you ingest." putting the lie to the idea that we seniors have SUCH anabolic resistance there is no way to increase muscle. 

Agree with much of what you've said about modern medicine, Lori. But short of blowing up the entire insurance/medical/hospital/pharma industrial complex, I don't know how to shift to the "glass half full" approach, to emphasize healthful habits, rather than diagnose and treat disease. I mean, somebody needs to do the latter, too. Maybe team up health/life coaches with healthcare providers during non-urgent medical visits? Functional medicine looks good on the surface, but usually distills to overtesting, unsubstantiated supplements, and other dubious interventions.

And although I intrinsically dislike/distrust the podcast format, I have listened to Van Loon, after you linked him in one of our prior interactions. He seems legit. Importantly, he isn't advocating sky-high protein intake (anything over 1.6 mg/kg/day) like many of the other pop nutrition "gurus".   

John Gill wrote:

When Rgold and I were mere youth we got started in the kind of athletics that led to bouldering. Here we exercise on the first gymnastic equipment designed by Johann Gutsmuth. He was a delightful instructor and we called him "Uncle Johnny".  To think, modern artistic gymnastics grew out of this!

I am hanging on a rope from a tree, while a young Rich is doing a no-hands showoff on a pole behind me. 

John, do you know, sorry, remember, roughly what year/ time period that illustration depicts? Some things haven't changed all that much!!!

A number of years ago, I visited a museum in Worcester, MA named the Higgin's Armory ( alas no longer in existence), which housed a large collection of medieval arms and armor. One of the exhibits had an illustration of a knight in full armor ( talk about a weight vest!!!) climbing an overhang ladder and described what they said was a representative 'knightly workout' which, I think, would have challenged many elite climbers---those guys were fit!!!! Unfortunately my visit there predated my owning an IPhone, so wasn't able to take a picture of that exhibit. Have you ever encountered anything like that, John ( or do you remember the workout you did back then!!!!)?

Climbing every day non-stop, but mostly in the gym. Fingers are holding out.

5.11+ finger crack. Lost both big toenails in the process.

Planning The Vampire late September. Settled back in SoCal working in SW. Got halfway up a gym 5.13a down here in Tustin

Planning trips to Idyllwild and JTree on some weekends.

Alan:  the year was 1759, when Uncle Johnny's book, Gymnastik für die Jugend, came out.

The inverted ladder goes way back to medieval times. By 1826 large A-frames were common in gyms, like this Turner gymnasium.

Li Hu wrote:

Climbing every day non-stop, but mostly in the gym. Fingers are holding out.

5.11+ finger crack. Lost both big toenails in the process.

Planning The Vampire late September. Settled back in SoCal working in SW. Got halfway up a gym 5.13a down here in Tustin

Planning trips to Idyllwild and JTree on some weekends.

I find I need a bit of rest between climbing days generally, although I do climb almost every day when I’m away on a trip. These days more than four days a week climbing and I don’t recover.