New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

M Spraguewrote:

All this talk about hiking and weighted pullup training is making people with bad knees cranky   Maybe we need to bring back some soothing politics.

As far as knees go; purely personal and anecdotal, when I was having knee issues after Lyme disease and too much jumaring I found some super light (so no cranking hard, just a fairly high rev lowered gear pedaling) mountain biking) and close attention to my form (knees and toes aligned well in the direction of travel when hiking) really helped. It always amazes me how many people just kind of flop their feet around when walking  or running., sometimes like a duck falling forward and then they wonder why things wear out and don't work well. I have never liked hiking poles myself as just more stuff to manipulate. I'd rather concentrate on form and breathing so I can get into that perfect rhythm and almost go into a trance on long approaches with a big pack.

I finally got Lyme disease after all these years of working in the woods.  I found an imbedded deer tick, and didn’t take two doses of doxycycline as I normally do because I thought that it hadn’t been in that long.  Woke up with a stiff neck on Sunday and thought that I just slept in a bad position.  Same thing Monday morning and then I noticed the bullseye rash.  I keep doxycycline in the fridge so I started it right away, day four today.  I feel fine otherwise, bouldered in the gym Wednesday and bouldering outside tomorrow.  Fingers crossed!

rgoldwrote:

It never really occurred to me that I would ever be 90.  But doing pullups at 90? There are some important steps

I'm a mere babe at 81.75, and all of the above apply, but I'm trying to keep the pullups alive for another day (fuhgeddabout another eight years). 

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to keep my hand endurance up (and not for lack of trying), so the pullup strength is like having an Indy 500 engine in a total jalopy chassis.  But the exercise for its own sake seems like a good idea--until it turns out not to be of course.

If someone thinks this is spragging it’s their own insecurities….  I’m watching my own father at 80 have a hard time bending over without loosing balance - major contributing factor being inactivity and my 76 y/o mother in law not be able to step out of a pool because she won’t “do” stairs unless there’s bingo game at the top…. Let’s not even get into side effects of GLP-1 on muscle mass

So weighted pull ups. Two thumbs up Sir! Goals!

Hands up Who else can pass the “old man test” put shoes and socks on while balanced on one leg?

Use it or lose it…  

wendy weisswrote:

Colden, are you okay? Like Buck, I wondered if someone hacked your account?

Lori, I saw that post before you deleted it. It's good news, but made me wonder if those first diagnoses were dead wrong and your doctor and dentist really knew what they were talking about.

Thanks Wendy. I know you know how interested I am in the subject of aging and diet and nutrition. If I can contribute one thing to this group or to the larger aging population in general, it would be an honor.

I sat with my dentist this week and we looked at the before and after panoramic x-rays which were so clearly obvious.. He carefully reviewed all his clinical notes from 2001. We had talked on the phone after that first diagnosis to consider some possible fixes, but what I understood was that pressure on those diminishing jaw bones Via chewing was the one thing that might help a little.  And that makes sense because essentially stressing bone causes it to strengthen.  I just don’t think either of us expected to see such repair of a week jaw bone

Regarding osteoporosis – – I started getting DEXA scans when I was 40 and every two or three years thereafter , and they just got progressively worse, from osteopenia to mild osteoporosis to moderate osteoporosis , which was alarming.  

My primary physician who saw the moderate osteoporosis, DEXA scan threw down a gauntlet and told me this was very serious and that there was no other possibility but immediate IV bisphosphinates.  He actually sad “I don’t wanna hear about hormones or vitamin D. It’s too late for all that.”

So I decided to do the most reasonable intervention I could. I interviewed five different bone specialists and took prodigious notes. I set forth a plan and proceeded on.  One of the. Important drivers for me was increasing estradiol and optimizing testosterone. I also think that no amount of vitamin D in pill form can replace sunlight on skin so I have concentrated on both daily sunlight and taking vitamins A, D and K (based upon labs).  And I have absolutely increased that protein level along with bone marrow and bone matrix.

And I do think that there is an incredible benefit to climbing whether in a gym or outdoors because it is a whole body maximal experience that puts resistance stress on virtually every bone. I don’t think you can get this in any other way nearly as well.  So on those occasional days when I’m feeling miserable out on the rock, I remind myself that all this hard work is also building bone.

I would love to talk about hormones here or in a sub forum, but I don’t know if the interest is there. Phylp sure gave a great overview some thousands of posts back. I can’t think of an intervention that has helped me more and I would fight like hell to keep for life.  I listened to an long interview yesterday by a urinary specialist who said “menopause is a castration event”. I think/hope the medical field begins to see it that way, and of course the very same for men. 

Jim Uwrote:

If someone thinks this is spragging it’s their own insecurities….  I’m watching my own father at 80 have a hard time bending over without loosing balance - major contributing factor being inactivity and my 76 y/o mother in law not be able to step out of a pool because she won’t “do” stairs unless there’s bingo game at the top…. Let’s not even get into side effects of GLP-1 on muscle mass

So weighted pull ups. Two thumbs up Sir! Goals!

Hands up Who else can pass the “old man test” put shoes and socks on while balanced on one leg?

Use it or lose it…  

I can pass it but of course at a sprightly 64 I'm not old.

Another good test of balance is standing on one leg with hands on hips, closing your eyes and timing how long you can balance. People in their 60s average around 3 seconds while people under 40 average around 10 seconds.

Emil Briggswrote:

There are a lot of things I wish I had done when I was younger and some I wish I hadn't done!   

Most of my big hikes were related to climbing but not all. In my early 30s I hiked the Grand Canyon rim to river and back out again in a day. I was super fit at that point in my life and it didn't seem particularly hard. Did some big days in the Alps, Cascades and Sierras through my 40s but things were definitely getting harder. And then in my mid 50's I did the Cables route on Longs Peak with my daughter, one of her friends and her friends mom and that was much tougher. Partly the altitude but being 25 years older made a difference. Nowadays I find the approach to one of our local crags to be a workout. Granted it's around 900 feet of elevation gain in a mile and half but carrying a rope and rack up that kicks my butt. You Gunks locals have really got something good there with those approaches.

BITD when I was a distance runner I ran south rim to the river and back.  Took a little under than 3 hours, not including a detour to Phantom Ranch.  When I got back to the south rim there was a small group of runners at the trail head.  They asked if I had seen any other runners on the way back up, they were waiting for a friend.  I waited with them and after about an hour a guy on crutches came up.  Blood running down from his armpits.  He and his friends did this run every year, but he had an injury and was now on crutches but was determined to keep running with his friends.  I had been feeling pretty good about my run, but had to rethink that!  

Lori, you've convinced me, although I still wonder if your doc understood what bisphosphinates do, which, as I understand it, is not to increase bone density, but to prevent loss.

I wish that I hadn't been taken off estrogen as part of the big estrogen scare, but my current PCP, whom I trust, thinks going on hormones at my age and so many years later would be a mistake.

Rich, I appreciate your occasional training post and hope you continue to provide them.

I don't do pull-ups any more, as they seem to aggravate my shoulder arthritis, but may try again using your adaptation or something like it.

I'm not totally convinced that pull-ups are particularly useful for climbing though.

TBH, I'd much rather hear about what various contributors do for training than hear about their gardens, political opinions, etc. 

Please post more training!

I can easily just skip uninteresting (to me) topics. And block the folks I find especially objectionable.

Ward sorry you gut the lyme.  Hope it clears up for you.  RG its always inspireing to hear from you but those pull ups look painfull. I have tender shoulderrs and elbows. I do my pull ups with ice tools but I assist with my feet. The opposite of weighted pull ups. 

Emil Briggswrote:

I can pass it but of course at a sprightly 64 I'm not old.

Another good test of balance is standing on one leg with hands on hips, closing your eyes and timing how long you can balance. People in their 60s average around 3 seconds while people under 40 average around 10 seconds.

With eyes open, I make it a habit to balance on one leg every day for a timed minute. With eyes closed, I'm toast, and attempts at practicing don't seem to result in any progress.  I suspect that as other types of balance proprioception decline, I can partially compensate with visual inputs, but without sight I'm screwed.

My balance is noticeably worse since my work fall 3 years ago... 

Mark E Dixonwrote:

Rich, I appreciate your occasional training post and hope you continue to provide them.

I don't do pull-ups any more, as they seem to aggravate my shoulder arthritis, but may try again using your adaptation or something like it.

I'm not totally convinced that pull-ups are particularly useful for climbing though.

TBH, I'd much rather hear about what various contributors do for training than hear about their gardens, political opinions, etc. 

Please post more training!

I can easily just skip uninteresting (to me) topics. And block the folks I find especially objectionable.

Mixing maximum hangs with more repetitions of sub-maximum. I can't do very much volume of maximum hangs, and it seems that doing the max hangs, waiting an hour, and then doing two sets of 10 sub-maximum hangs has been useful. 

A month or so ago, I decided to waste money and have an assessment done by one of the training companies/sites. Interesting.

 "Dear Mr. ___. The results of your strength, endurance, and flexibility tests indicate that you passed away 4 years ago. Thanks for using our service. Hope to see ya out at the crags!"

rgoldwrote:

Fuck the opprobrium rgold, shares like that have always been the gold standard for threads like these. I'm stoked! And I stood on one leg while I wrote this (seriously). 

Ward Smithwrote:

I finally got Lyme disease after all these years of working in the woods.  I found an imbedded deer tick, and didn’t take two doses of doxycycline as I normally do because I thought that it hadn’t been in that long.  Woke up with a stiff neck on Sunday and thought that I just slept in a bad position.  Same thing Monday morning and then I noticed the bullseye rash.  I keep doxycycline in the fridge so I started it right away, day four today.  I feel fine otherwise, bouldered in the gym Wednesday and bouldering outside tomorrow.  Fingers crossed!

Bummer. You caught it right away, so you will probably be fine The doxy didn't work in my case, just made me stay out of the sun and feel awful. I had to do a full course of another antibiotic afterwards, which seemed to do the job. You may remember when I was hobbling around and you were calling me Ahab! I thought at first I had hurt my knee from drop kneeing when we were working on Feeding Frenzy. The knee ended up swelling like a volley ball and when one of the doctor's stuck a big needle in to drain it he hit a nerve and I went out like a light like a feinting goat and ended up on the floor. Great fun. Even though I live in southern RI it took 3 doctors before one would take my suggestion and test for Lyme. Instead they sent me to "specialists" who of course saw everything through their glasses, ie. a chiropractor wants to manipulate you, a PT gives you exercises.  Hopefully they are more keyed in to Lyme these days.

Good timing on you sells Ward!

Tim Brattenwrote:

Fuck the opprobrium rgold, shares like that have always been the gold standard for threads like these. I'm stoked! And I stood on one leg while I wrote this (seriously). 

You guys with your weight lifting obviously need to step it up another level with you iron crotch training. Maybe Nick has picked up some training tips over the years he would share with you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2c_-9kIjyU There are women's versions too.

Eric Engbergwrote:

…….  

Now that I am getting too decrepit to climb anywhere near like I used to I find myself thinking more about hiking.  Maybe the NH 48 after the age of 75 (that is a recognized thing).  But I might be too decrepit for that too.  So to all those that are waiting to do the easy low hanging fruit when you are old - don't wait too long.

My retirement was supposed to be hiking all those named trails. Climbing a whole bunch of easy classic alpine routes. But no, Mother Nature might have different plans for you.
Balance- last year I fell off of a 24inch diameter log into a creek! I did have the presence of mind to go downstream and toss my rod towards the river bank.
So things change. All part of growing old.
You must play the cards you are dealt.
The alternative????
Rgold …. Keep cranking weighted pull ups!

Good to see you Carl! Hang tough!

Everyone else- stay active, happy and fit. 

Ward Smithwrote:

I finally got Lyme disease after all these years of working in the woods.

So sorry! I hope the antibiotics work well for you!

Wendy and Lori, have you seen the LIFTMOR osteoporosis research? It doesn't look easy (and it's not recommended to do it w/o supervision), but it's promising.

Emil, I'll sprag by saying that I can do the 1-foot stand for 20 seconds at which point I get bored and open my eyes. How old does that make me?

phylp, hi! Join the sprag club I guess. Pics?

M Sprague "It always amazes me how many people just kind of flop their feet around when walking  or running., sometimes like a duck falling forward". I do not believe that was my issue. I've been to 3 different PTs over the course of 4-5 years now. Latest guy seemed to think it might actually be a nerve issue. He gave me some exercises, but said it would take some undetermined amount of time to see improvement. Meantime, I haven't done lengthy uphill hikes in several years, so I can't tell whether the problem is gone or not.

rgold, "With eyes closed, I'm toast, and attempts at practicing don't seem to result in any progress.  I suspect that as other types of balance proprioception decline, I can partially compensate with visual inputs, but without sight I'm screwed." I dislike accepting that this limitation can't be overcome.... suppose you had started doing this every day at the age of say 60. Do you think that gradually your max time would have decreased, and then eventually you couldn't do it at all? Given that this is a test, it may be cheating to practice every day. But maybe practicing every day trains the brain to exercise its balance neurons (or whatever, I have no idea how balance works)? I've got it in my schedule to run through a popular aging test every month to see if I'm falling behind (so that I know when to panic).
Here's the video with the tests. They start at about 19 minutes in.

Lori Milaswrote:

 That includes eating a better tomato (why do the yellow ones taste so good?).

Many colors to choose from this year.  The big one is actually more green than it looks and was 1.6 pounds.

rgoldwrote:

With eyes open, I make it a habit to balance on one leg every day for a timed minute. With eyes closed, I'm toast, and attempts at practicing don't seem to result in any progress.  I suspect that as other types of balance proprioception decline, I can partially compensate with visual inputs, but without sight I'm screwed.

I'm with you Rich.  Eyes open I can stand on one leg as long as I want.  Eyes closed and I MIGHT make 10 seconds, but it is a wobbly 10 seconds.  My favorite is to boulder hop along streams/rivers and never touch ground.  Best balance exercise I have found.

dragonswrote:

So sorry! I hope the antibiotics work well for you!

Wendy and Lori, have you seen the LIFTMOR osteoporosis research? It doesn't look easy (and it's not recommended to do it w/o supervision), but it's promising.

Emil, I'll sprag by saying that I can do the 1-foot stand for 20 seconds at which point I get bored and open my eyes. How old does that make me?

You're still in the womb! Seriously that's impressive. I'm over 10 seconds usually and my left leg can sometime last quite a bit longer. Not so the right even though I'm right handed. I think that's probably because of a prior injury.

Lori Milaswrote:

Carl, you gotta get out of there!  You poor thing, drowning in angst.   During the winter before I moved to the desert I found myself nonstop crying. It was bad. I would look out the window and see clouds and just burst into tears again.But just remember the sun is on its way and you can get through this—you always do. Are you taking extra vitamin D?

You do have friends.   And you have a lot of time left.  Hang in there, buddy!

Thank you very much. I’m ok. I just want sunny warm days!