New and experienced climbers over 50 #38

All this talking about New England hiking when we are young and when we are old makes me start with the typical old man reminiscing.  Like Ward I initially got  hooked on the NH 4K peaks in my teens.  Finished that when I was 16 and with in a few years added the other NE (VT and ME) ones both summer and winter .  At that point there were 46 in NH and 63 in NE.  After about 1970 I got more and more hooked on climbing and hiked less and less - although I usually managed a few 4K hikes a year with my kids or friends.  At this point there isn't an "official" NH peak that I haven't been up at least 4x and the good ones many more.  But a funny thing is that that original NH list expanded to 48 and the NE list expanded to 67 (2 more in Maine).  I got #48 (Bondcliff) in NH ~ 45 years after I finished #46.  I have never done the other 2 in ME - not very exciting ones.  

Now that I am getting too decrepit to climb anywhere near like I used to I find myself thinking more about hiking.  Maybe the NH 48 after the age of 75 (that is a recognized thing).  But I might be too decrepit for that too.  So to all those that are waiting to do the easy low hanging fruit when you are old - don't wait too long.

Eric Engbergwrote:

 So to all those that are waiting to do the easy low hanging fruit when you are old - don't wait too long.

How true that is. I had thought I would still be doing body weight exercises at 90, but medical issues have interfered and extra weight hasn't helped. I am a year and a half younger than this man but haven't aged as well !

I've always considered hiking and climbing to be in the same family; close relatives and often together. Yes for me too, full time technical climbing has been a devoted focus for most of my life. Plain ole hiking comes and goes from focus depending on lots of variables. 

Peak bagging can be a mix of both of course especially if throwing in all 4 seasons.

I got focused on California county highpoints in the mid 90s when Gary Suttle published his eponymous high point book. I was delighted to see I'd already climbed quite a few, including the tougher ones like Shasta ( climbed and skied) and North Palisade (U Notch). Over some years I ticked off all the county highpoints. It was a blast, visiting areas from fence hopping the Mexican border to Del Norte madness on the Oregon border. Pissants like Mt Davis in San Francisco to brush thumps like Little Blue Peak. I loved it!

This got me focused on another list, one I created myself but then met a few others who had done the same: tick the high point of every named range in California. This is a much larger list. While I've got good progress on this, it fell away for years as I pursued other objectives. Those 2 other guys I knew were chasing it, completed it. Still on my to-do list. At least a couple of them are problematic, being located on restricted military bases. We actually got caught by security guards while prospecting for "alternative routes" to one of those peaks, in the southern Death Valley region. We weren't on the base property, but left to my own devices we would have been! That was maybe 8 years ago or so, in winter. I need to get back to it. My challenge is I've done most all the ones close to me and there are a lot of them in SoCal that will involve multiple long trips and I prefer to do them in fall through spring.

Its good to have loose objectives like this, on the shelf but ready to bag, when the opportunities arise.

Buck, Ward, and Eric - I grew up in a city. I only started doing more serious hiking in my 30s. I'd moved to CT, where they have an extensive network of "blue trails". I was planning to complete them all, but wound up moving to MA. I discovered that if I wanted to keep hiking, I'd probably have to make trips up to NH. That's when I started hiking the NH 4000 footers.

I hiked 26 of them. My last were Pierce and Eisenhower in 2019. I'd started to have more knee pain when descending from long uphill hikes. I could never get a diagnosis, even with an MRI. The doc said to "find other things to do," which was not very helpful. In any case, I had gotten much more into climbing at that point, and decided that if I was going to give up something, it would be the long hikes. It was a total bummer, because I also wanted to do more remote climbs as well.

And then I moved away from NH a couple of years ago. I may never complete the NH 4000 footers, but they certainly still tug at me. It's hard to believe I'll be able to get back to them as I get older, although I'd like to. The knee problem still awakens on longer hikes.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Katahdin kicked my butt. there is certainly some great climbing up there but it would be a monster day CTC carrying a rack and ropes. Wish I had done that when I was younger.. 

There are a lot of things I wish I had done when I was younger and some I wish I hadn't done!   

Most of my big hikes were related to climbing but not all. In my early 30s I hiked the Grand Canyon rim to river and back out again in a day. I was super fit at that point in my life and it didn't seem particularly hard. Did some big days in the Alps, Cascades and Sierras through my 40s but things were definitely getting harder. And then in my mid 50's I did the Cables route on Longs Peak with my daughter, one of her friends and her friends mom and that was much tougher. Partly the altitude but being 25 years older made a difference. Nowadays I find the approach to one of our local crags to be a workout. Granted it's around 900 feet of elevation gain in a mile and half but carrying a rope and rack up that kicks my butt. You Gunks locals have really got something good there with those approaches.

I NEVER liked hiking.  I am made of too much fast twitch muscle and lived a lifetime of short burst exercise.  Then my shoulders quit working and I couldn't climb anymore.  I quickly found that hiking stamina is not very hard to gain if you are willing to hurt and push good hills and hike a couple times a week.  That gave me the freedom of the hills that I was missing and I found I just loved being way out in the wilderness alone.  Then my knees went.  It sucked.  I have an appointment with the knee replacement doc next month though and hopefully I just need partial replacements (insides) and can get back to it soon.  Never gonna climb again though cause too many parts are just worn out - fingers, elbows and shoulders.  I am not going to fix ALL of those.

Dragons, thanks for the link to what you were writing about (the New Hampshire 4,000 footers)! I think sometimes there's a bit of a disconnect between those of us on this thread from the west, east and center about places and place names (and I'm as guilty of that as anyone here).

Lists of summits like that catch my interest and it's nice to not have to search for the subject!

Few places on the planet are as beautiful as the Long Trail in the fall.

This is me and my college roommate on wintertime Camel’s Hump in the late 80s. Fritz went on to start a company called Melanzana in Leadville a few years later. It was the fact that there is so little above treeline in the east that convinced me to move out west as soon as college was done.

I got a pair of adjustable trekking poles a few years ago. They make a huge difference for my knees. Can’t imagine hiking without them now…

Full disclosure:
[used AI to remove the bong]

I also find climbing and hiking to be so closely related that I can’t decide which I enjoy more.   But hiking has been a focus of mine continuously from the age of nine, whereas climbing has faded in and out of focus from the age of thirteen.  These days I hike almost every day and also climb about three days a week in season.  In the United States our 1-5 class system refers to the difficulty of hiking, so climbing’s roots seem to be based on hiking.  I’ve done about 700 miles of the PCT, hope to do more.

It just occurred to me that you now need a solar cellphone charger to go backpacking... 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

It just occurred to me that you now need a solar cellphone charger to go backpacking..

You can use a small battery pack and get a couple of full charges from it. 

John Gillwrote:

How true that is. I had thought I would still be doing body weight exercises at 90, but medical issues have interfered and extra weight hasn't helped. I am a year and a half younger than this man but haven't aged as well !

It never really occurred to me that I would ever be 90.  But doing pullups at 90? There are some important steps

1. You have to arrange to be alive at 90.  This can be tricky.
2. Having reached 90, you have to be able to remember what a pullup bar is.  Also what year it is and your name, without checking your wallet.
3. Having reached 90, you have to be able to get to the pull-up bar without a gurney, wheelchair, or walker. A cane is ok and can be handy for swatting all the youngsters away.
4. The right environment is important, for example, having a defibrillator nearby and someone who knows what to do with it.

I'm a mere babe at 81.75, and all of the above apply, but I'm trying to keep the pullups alive for another day (fuhgeddabout another eight years).  My approach is a bit different; it is the octagenarian version of what I used to do, which was high-intensity, low reps.  Nowadays, I do sets of three pullups, (this is sad) usually about twelve sets, with a three-minute rest in between.  I add weight, so I'll do a set at bodyweight, then a set at BW+10, BW+15, BW+20, five sets at BW+25, and then pyramid back down to a final bodyweight set.  It is looking as if I might get up to a BW+30 set, but ya never know. I don't do half-pullups like the gentleman in the video, but that is now, no judgment about then if there ever is a then.  

Here's an intermediate set with a 10 or 15 lb rubber weight (they look heavier than they are). 

The repurposed swami belt webbing straps are my secret sauce for avoiding epicondylitis, which plagued me for years.  A lot of the load is on the wrist, the grip is relatively light, and the hands can rotate a bit during the pullup.  By touching my nose to the bar, I get a pretty high pull.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to keep my hand endurance up (and not for lack of trying), so the pullup strength is like having an Indy 500 engine in a total jalopy chassis.  But the exercise for its own sake seems like a good idea--until it turns out not to be of course.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

It just occurred to me that you now need a solar cellphone charger to go backpacking... 

Especially if your cell phone is your primary navigation tool...and photo's, and emergency communication...

I haven't quite got my head around it (yet)...but...cell phones are pretty handy.  Will admit to carrying an old school compass recently...ha ha.

Brian in SLCwrote:

Especially if your cell phone is your primary navigation tool...and photo's, and emergency communication...

I haven't quite got my head around it (yet)...but...cell phones are pretty handy.  Will admit to carrying an old school compass recently...ha ha.

Hey Brian, what carrier do you use for your magnetic field compass readings? Electromagnetic Spectrum perchance?

rgoldwrote:

Hey Brian, what carrier do you use for your magnetic field compass readings? Electromagnetic Spectrum perchance?

I use a thin nylon cord as my carrier.  Was surprised at the magnetic declination adjustment...

(Pretty funny...took me a second.  Spectrum is not a carrier here in Utah.  My mom's phone was a Spectrum cellular contract in Idaho.  Good one!)

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

I've always considered hiking and climbing to be in the same family; close relatives and often together. 

A little history. When I began climbing (1953) actual climbing was considered an extension of hiking. The Sierra scale was 1-5 with 2 being hiking trails I suspect. Chouinard and I would joke about solo climbing as being "3rd grade". 

The first attempt to grade climbs was (Wikipedia):

"In 1894, the Austrian mountaineer Fritz Benesch [de] introduced the first known climbing grading system, which he introduced to rock climbing. The "Benesch scale" had seven levels of difficulty, with level VII the easiest and level I the hardest; as more difficult climbs were made, the grades of level 0 and level 00 were added "

That seems really odd, now. But a little later:

"In 1923, German mountaineer Willo Welzenbach [de] compressed the scale and reversed the order so level 00 became level IV–V, and it became popular in the Alps. In 1967, the "Welzenbach scale" formally became the "UIAA scale" for rock climbing (or "UIAA Scale of Difficulty") with Roman numerals I–VI, and a "+" and "−" "

Then:

"In America, a version of the Welzenbach Scale was introduced for rock climbing in 1937 by the Sierra Club, which in the 1950s was further adapted into the Yosemite Decimal System "

In other words, philosophically, climbing was an extension of hiking. Then, in the late '50s and '60s bouldering began its journey to maturity - and it didn't seem at all like hiking. It was more athletic than most trad climbing, closer akin to gymnastics than serious walking. A few of us (including Rgold) adopted that attitude, and it was slowly cultivated by some of the upcoming young climbers - particularly from California. At first, the Sierra system was used for rating bouldering difficulty, 5.1-5.10, but that still in a way linked it to hiking. My attempt at grading (B1,B2,B3) , comparing with the YDS, was inadequate as bouldering became more popular. Then Sherman came on to the scene and established the V-scale - completely separate from hiking. And the modern French system, of course.

In the 1980s, sport climbing and speed climbing shifted the notion of a hiking extension even further away. 

This is just trivia. And others may disagree with my brief analysis. In the end it's whatever climbers feel they are doing - and lots of climbs require hiking approaches that turn into scrambling, then more serious climbing. And so, hiking and climbing are on some sort of continuum.

rgoldwrote:

It never really occurred to me that I would ever be 90.  But doing pullups at 90? There are some important steps

1. You have to arrange to be alive at 90.  This can be tricky.
2. Having reached 90, you have to be able to remember what a pullup bar is.  Also what year it is and your name, without checking your wallet.
3. Having reached 90, you have to be able to get to the pull-up bar without a gurney, wheelchair, or walker. A cane is ok and can be handy for swatting all the youngsters away.
4. The right environment is important, for example, having a defibrillator nearby and someone who knows what to do with it.

I'm a mere babe at 81.75, and all of the above apply, but I'm trying to keep the pullups alive for another day (fuhgeddabout another eight years).  My approach is a bit different; it is the octagenarian version of what I used to do, which was high-intensity, low reps.  Nowadays, I do sets of three pullups, (this is sad) usually about twelve sets, with a three-minute rest in between.  I add weight, so I'll do a set at bodyweight, then a set at BW+10, BW+15, BW+20, five sets at BW+25, and then pyramid back down to a final bodyweight set.  It is looking as if I might get up to a BW+30 set, but ya never know. I don't do half-pullups like the gentleman in the video, but that is now, no judgment about then if there ever is a then.  

Here's an intermediate set with a 10 or 15 lb rubber weight (they look heavier than they are). 

The repurposed swami belt webbing straps are my secret sauce for avoiding epicondylitis, which plagued me for years.  A lot of the load is on the wrist, the grip is relatively light, and the hands can rotate a bit during the pullup.  By touching my nose to the bar, I get a pretty high pull.

Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to keep my hand endurance up (and not for lack of trying), so the pullup strength is like having an Indy 500 engine in a total jalopy chassis.  But the exercise for its own sake seems like a good idea--until it turns out not to be of course.

We’re all impressed (not). But seriously, what’s the point? Do you want us to be impressed or is it something else? I hope when I’m as old as you I’m content to just die gracefully without posting up…

Colden Darkwrote:

We’re all impressed (not). But seriously, what’s the point? Do you want us to be impressed or is it something else? I hope when I’m as old as you I’m content to just die gracefully without posting up…

I've been posting on climbing sites since the original rec.climbing (as well as bragging about my cutting-edge bouldering with Gill in Victorian England).  Been attacked "by experts," to quote Sonny Barger. Felt the sting of opprobrium from Geoffrey Winthrop Young, John Muir, and Tenzing Norgay. In real life, Don Whillans once told me to fuck off. (Sadly, this is not much of an accomplishment.)  And yet I find myself surprised that such an attack happened here.  Sign of the times, I guess.

We've had some negativity about politics, but this comment opens a new censorious door. The point is that this thread has had a consistent theme of "sharing where we are," one of the features that, I believe, has made it endure. We speak of climbing, trekking, biking, paddling, skiing, health, gardening, wandering, and enduring cold and dark environments. Folks here and elsewhere post about training all the time; I did so in the same spirit, thinking, among other things, that the workouts might be something other aging climbers would find useful and effective and potentially modifiable for their own purposes, and that, for example, things like wrist straps might help some people train fitness who were previously restricted by old overuse injuries.

 Beyond training, we do hear quite a bit about accomplishments here.  Are we supposed to be impressed by them? Maybe, but as you so clearly demonstrate, impression is in the eye of the beholder, who can surely choose not to be the least impressed. But you have gone beyond being unimpressed to aggrieved. Why is the revealing of accomplishments grounds for denigration? Is the welcome mat that characterized this place now equipped with an asterisk?  Must we edit our contributions to qualify for some cold and dark person's vision of a graceful death?

Fortunately, there is a cure for your malaise. Click on my name; it will take you to my page (which I do not fill out).  There, under my icon, you will find the following button

Click on that, and you'll never have to be impressed (not) again. Quick, before I discuss how miserable my current performances are compared to days of old.

I for one am impressed Rich, ignore the crap.  Multi joint exercises like weighted pullups are especially important as we age.  I have just started doing them again after a long hiatus. Keep up the good work and the posts.  I’m rooting for you and + 30!

Colden, that was a pretty crass comment. Reminded me of when a young punk on a job site told me that I was too old to do the job and shouldn't be there because I asked him for help moving some sheet goods.