Looking at Someone's MP 'Ticks' is a Weak Move

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

If the only way you can win an argument is by pointing to someone's climbing log, your position likely lacks intellectual substance.

folks that add new problems/routes to this site that are harder than anything they have previously ticked are sus.

Sez who?

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

If how hard you climb makes you correct, 

I quibble with two of your presuppositions here. Please correct me if I am reading your positions wrong, as most of my MP time occurs now while I am feeding a wriggly five-month-old, which also imparts deleterious effects to my reading comprehension. Also, I have become a Boomer w/r/t voice-dictating while infan-pacitated, so excuse any Siri-ous mistakes.

One, that people are judging the value of someone's opinions based on the YDS-value of their ticks. Maybe some people do, but I look at them as evidence of experience-based competence. See my response to Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza, who I would consider to be more vet than gum.

I value the opinion of someone who has efficiently climbed a 5.9 Grade V more highly than someone who has redpointed 5.12a in Ten Sleep because they're gymstrong.

Two, that there is a right or a wrong answer to internet climbing debates. Aside from the obvious "wrong" moves in climbing that end in death, most of our topics here have more than one way to skin a cat.

I consider an MP discussion to be successful when I learn something new, or when I'm inspired to look at an issue from a different perspective. I've even changed my mind and behavior based on forum interactions.

And sure, I occasionally get sucked into the chest-thumpery and "spear" shaking of disagreeing with Philistines on the virtual sidewalk. But at the end of the day, your opinion is as valid as mine.

... I'm just not going to give it much credence if that opinion is coming from a gumby who can quote the guidefluencer of the day chapter and verse, and "knows" lots of Facts because FotH, but can't climb a three-pitch 5.9 without an epic.

And I still say climbing should be a meritocracy because YGD. 

With full knowledge that the only person who read that logorrhea word-for-word is JW -- thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Dan Bwrote:

i was under the impression that the person who's having the most fun is the one who wins the argument

Does that mean Tradiban wins MP?

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

Okay I just ticked the Dawn Wall and The Nose.

Well, I looked and yes, you proved a point.. anyone can tick whatever they want it doesn't have to be true. Don't believe anything you read online.

And I realize that this thread is 98% trolling. Or maybe 100% boredom because it's too hot to climb outdoors.
However, I do occasionally tick routes and when I'm looking for a partner, I look at what they have ticked. Because I'm trying to ascertain if they like to climb the same kind of things that I do.

And I do keep track at least of my climbing days and who I climbed with in a paper journal and have for many years. Although I do regret that for the first 15 years that I climbed when we didn't have guide books around here and I had no idea what it was that I climbed. there is no record. Just my memory and I'll walk the base of a cliff and go. Oh yeah I think I climbed that. no idea with who or when. and in reality, it doesn't really matter.

grug gwrote:

I'm not really interested in the opinion of a 5.7 climber or someone who is too scared to have public tics.

There are other reasons why a MP user would have no ticks besides being “too scared”.  The main reason I can think of is it seems like a waste of time and really boring. That’s my reason. As examples, Neither Conner Herson or Jim Donini have any ticks, Peter Croft has one. I kind of think those people aren’t “too scared”.

BTW, I’ve idly wondered over the time I’ve seen your posts in the Forum if you are the same good off-width climber Grug I met at Indian Creek on a group trip. Other people on the trip were Donini, Angela, JayBro, Vitaliy M, Burchey, Chris and Patty.

I might be able to figure it out by looking at your ticks but that seems like a waste of time and really boring. 

Although I do regret that for the first 15 years that I climbed when we didn't have guide books around here and I had no idea what it was that I climbed. there is no record. Just my memory and I'll walk the base of a cliff and go. Oh yeah I think I climbed that. no idea with who or when. and in reality, it doesn't really matter.

Personally, I think this is the ideal state.

J Lwrote:

Does that mean Tradiban wins MP?

I don’t know about that. Tradi seemed to be using MP to compensating for, distracting from issues he had IRL.

That doesn’t seem like winning. 

I have just never cared. Never wrote down what I did or where or when.

phylp phylpwrote:

There are other reasons why a MP user would have no ticks besides being “too scared”.  The main reason I can think of is it seems like a waste of time and really boring. That’s my reason. As examples, Neither Conner Herson or Jim Donini have any ticks, Peter Croft has one. I kind of think those people aren’t “too scared”.

BTW, I’ve idly wondered over the time I’ve seen your posts in the Forum if you are the same good off-width climber Grug I met at Indian Creek on a group trip. Other people on the trip were Donini, Angela, JayBro, Vitaliy M, Burchey, Chris and Patty.

I might be able to figure it out by looking at your ticks but that seems like a waste of time and really boring. 

Different grug, here's a post by the grug you are thinking of.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121472517/the-fulgurite-thread

Chad Millerwrote:

Are you wanting me to sit on you. No judgement.  

I am fluffy and used to lead mid 10’s trad before I broke my leg a month ago.  

What’s your excuse for being an average climber?   

Chad, would you sit on me, please?

fossilwrote:

Different grug, here's a post by the grug you are thinking of.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121472517/the-fulgurite-thread

Yeah. The grug in this thread doesn’t climb that hard. We should only listen to the other grug.   

Jay Goodwinwrote:

Chad, would you sit on me, please?

Of course!  I’ll PM you my rates.   

fossilwrote:

Different grug, here's a post by the grug you are thinking of.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/121472517/the-fulgurite-thread

Thanks, Fossil!

Can't an idiot say something wise on occasion?  

A person's merit can pretty easily be discerned from their words: brevity(!!!), clarity, simplicity, and thoughtfulness of argument.  

Its my natural tendency to respect the opinion of folks who have a lengthy alpine resume.  They're free to lose that respect thru the quality of their expression.  

I quit inputting occasional ticks after deciding l was no longer working towards a higher/harder/faster objective. They're good for the memory (positive) and fodder for the ego (negative).  

Want people to respect your opinion?  Have an impressive tick list!  And exercise some wisdom in your words.  The title of this post sounds like a whiner, not a winner.  

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

some of us think public tics are super lame. 

They make more sense if you are the kind of person who meets potential partners off the net (I don't) as at least a hint towards the person's experience and interest. Among friends they are kind of fun to see what they are up to if you haven't been hanging with them at the crag lately. It is also nice for developers when they get some feedback if they did a good job or not and if your extra efforts are appreciated or just a waste of time better put elsewhere. They are also helpful to gauge how crowded or potentially overgrown a route might be.. Lots of good uses, so making a blanket negative judgment about public ticks doesn't hold up well and is more a function of the beholder.

My worth as an individual and to society is measured merely by my publicly available ticklist. It’s 2025 and if you don’t expect and prepare for every potential employer of yours to scrutinize your list you need to get with the times. And you best believe your “redpoint ground up ascent” will be dug into thoroughly in that final round interview. Employers are expecting ledge to ledge this year, no arbitrary hanging belays.

M Spraguewrote:

They make more sense if you are the kind of person who meets potential partners off the net (I don't) as at least a hint towards the person's experience and interest. Among friends they are kind of fun to see what they are up to if you haven't been hanging with them at the crag lately. It is also nice for developers when they get some feedback if they did a good job or not and if your extra efforts are appreciated or just a waste of time better put elsewhere. They are also helpful to gauge how crowded or potentially overgrown a route might be.. Lots of good uses, so making a blanket negative judgment about public ticks doesn't hold up well and is more a function of the beholder.

This is a great point.

I think it is fair in looking for partners or any of the other reasons you listed. I just don't think you should weaponize someone's ticklist for the sake of winning an argument. 

I consider an MP discussion to be successful when I learn something new, or when I'm inspired to look at an issue from a different perspective. I've even changed my mind and behavior based on forum interactions.

This is true. But if someone claims to have climbed a Grade V 5.9 and can't explain how to build an anchor, then either they didn’t actually climb a 5.9, they’re a poor teacher, or something else is going on. As someone gains more experience, they should be better able to articulate their arguments. A person who has freed The Nose should be able to describe it more clearly than someone who exclusively climbs in a gym. That’s why it’s important to focus on the strength of the argument rather than blindly trusting what someone has ticked. 

 Where's Walden wrote:

I looked at your ticks and I'm pretty sure you're just a fat guy.

Cringe^

Chad Miller wrote:

Over the last 20 years At least a dozen 150 pound guys thought that because the climbed harder they could rough me up. My 225 pound self just laughed and sat on them.

Cringe^

My tick list just killed your argument, lol! Joking.

Per usual, however, the truth is the old, unsatisfying answer that “it depends”.

Lots of people migrate their understanding of one climbing discipline to another, not realizing they actually don’t know WTF they’re talking about. Just like many people think their expertise in one field generalizes to all fields. The tick list may (or may not) clarify the qualifications of who is speaking.

Jay Goodwinwrote:

Chad, would you sit on me, please?

I think that's a contender for your next route name at Decadent Wall.