Looking at Someone's MP 'Ticks' is a Weak Move

If the only way you can win an argument is by pointing to someone's climbing log, your position likely lacks intellectual substance.

Counter point:

People only have unimpressive tick lists because they spend to much time on the internet in pointless arguments, instead of climbing or training more.

I've never looked at anyone's profile. They have ticks? Ew!

This opinion is invalid because this account has no ticks

Soft Catches and The Hard Truthwrote:

If the only way you can win an argument is by pointing to someone's climbing log, your position likely lacks intellectual substance.

Au contraire: the most meaningful arguments in climbing cannot be "won" or "lost."

They lead to fallible humans making the best possible decision with the information and experience available at the time.

When it comes to a decisions like these, I will 100% weigh the opinion of a veteran more heavily than that of a gumby.

Climbing is not a democracy. It's a meritocracy.

I'm going to take someone's opinion (on bolting or chipping for example) much more serious if they climb hard or have a lot of climbs under their  belt. I'm not really interested in the opinion of a 5.7 climber or someone who is too scared to have public tics. 

grug gwrote:

I'm going to take someone's opinion (on bolting or chipping for example) much more serious if they climb hard or have a lot of climbs under their  belt. I'm not really interested in the opinion of a 5.7 climber or someone who is too scared to have public tics. 

Which grade qualifies someone’s opinion? Asking for a friend.

Cory Nwrote:

Which grade qualifies someone’s opinion? Asking for a friend.

5.9+

some of us think public tics are super lame. 

i was under the impression that the person who's having the most fun is the one who wins the argument

If someone has ticks on MP, it suggests they don’t know how to operate a spreadsheet. Or a piece of paper. But it doesn’t invalidate their opinions.

If someone has ticks in real life, it suggests their romantic partner is missing, or bad at checks.

F r i t zwrote:

Au contraire: the most meaningful arguments in climbing cannot be "won" or "lost."

They lead to fallible humans making the best possible decision with the information and experience available at the time.

When it comes to a decisions like these, I will 100% weigh the opinion of a veteran more heavily than that of a gumby.

Climbing is not a democracy. It's a meritocracy.

What defines veteran? I’ve got around 1800 days climbing outside under my belt in a decade, but I’ve never led a 5.11. There’s people who can lead that grade after climbing a few months, but don’t know what a munter mule is. So yes, I would agree that I put more stock in an experienced opinion than a less experienced one, but going off of difficulty alone, like a lot of people do in arguments here, doesn’t cut it for me.

F r i t zwrote:

Au contraire: the most meaningful arguments in climbing cannot be "won" or "lost."

They lead to fallible humans making the best possible decision with the information and experience available at the time.

When it comes to a decisions like these, I will 100% weigh the opinion of a veteran more heavily than that of a gumby.

Climbing is not a democracy. It's a meritocracy.

It should be neither a democracy or a meritocracy. If how hard you climb makes you correct, no strong climber would ever perish from anything, because they would be inherently free of errors. 

Imagine Todd Skinner and a gumby gym bro. The gym bro notices that Todd Skinner's belay loop looks worn and is fraying. He says, "Your belay loop looks sketchy." Todd replies, "I've been climbing for 20 years—belay loops never fail."

But we shouldn't assume Todd is right just because he's experienced or strong. A better argument would be: "How Not 2 Highline tested old, worn harnesses, and they retained 90% of their strength."

Being experienced in anything in life should equip you with the capacity to best articulate how to do something. If I asked an electrician what the difference between 12/2 and 12/3 wire and they said, "I don't know." It doesn't matter how many years they have been wiring, I would be concerned. 

grug g wrote:

I'm going to take someone's opinion (on bolting or chipping for example) much more serious if they climb hard or have a lot of climbs under their  belt. I'm not really interested in the opinion of a 5.7 climber or someone who is too scared to have public tics.

Okay I just ticked the Dawn Wall and The Nose. 

F r i t zwrote:

Au contraire: the most meaningful arguments in climbing cannot be "won" or "lost."

They lead to fallible humans making the best possible decision with the information and experience available at the time.

When it comes to a decisions like these, I will 100% weigh the opinion of a veteran more heavily than that of a gumby.

Climbing is not a democracy. It's a meritocracy.

You forgot to mention: The merits are fatuous and juvenile.

Cory Nwrote:

Which grade qualifies someone’s opinion? Asking for a friend.

Obviously its a very grey area. But the context it adds to someone's opinion is signficant. For example based on your profile I would respect what you had to say on crack and sandstone (just one example). 

Even though your tics are private...

I haven't ticked anything in years.  Need to go back and do that at some point.  

are ticks like kinks?

I don’t care about anyone’s tic list. I rarely update my tic list here. It’s all in guidebooks.

I am surprised that the ethos of ‘I climb harder than you so I’m right / better than you’ is still prevalent.

Over the last 20 years At least a dozen 150 pound guys thought that because the climbed harder they could rough me up. My 225 pound self just laughed and sat on them. 

Chad Millerwrote:

I don’t care about anyone’s tic list. I rarely update my tic list here. It’s all in guidebooks.

I am surprised that the ethos of ‘I climb harder than you so I’m right / better than you’ is still prevalent.

Over the last 20 years At least a dozen 150 pound guys thought that because the climbed harder they could rough me up. My 225 pound self just laughed and sat on them. 

I looked at your ticks and I'm pretty sure you're just a fat guy. 

Where's Waldenwrote:

I looked at your ticks and I'm pretty sure you're just a fat guy. 

Are you wanting me to sit on you. No judgement.  

I am fluffy and used to lead mid 10’s trad before I broke my leg a month ago.  

What’s your excuse for being an average climber?   

Tony Danzawrote:

What defines veteran? 

Now this is a good question to ask!

I think it's a continuum. Several attributes determine whether a climber is closer toward one end or the other. Technical competence, speed and efficiency, ability to improvise, grace, under pressure, and yes, raw climbing ability, all contribute.

When someone makes wise decisions that are based on ample real-life experience, they are closer to attaining the Platonic form of veteran.