CLIMBERS, OUR PUBLIC LANDS NEED YOU!

grug gwrote:

Note I am not taking a political stance.

Back in 2017 the Access Fund rose up with all the other frothing anti-trump-at-any-cost crowd and decided to spend millions of our dollars on a lawsuit to sue the Trump administration. Of course nothing came of it because nothing can stop Teflon-Don. Instead of using our money for improving climbing, they sued Donny T which was a futile endeavor from the beginning. 

Donny T is a douche, but a small non-profit like the Access Fund trying to sue the greatest con-man ever? That's like you trying to on-site free solo el cap - its a joke and a waste. 

Yes let’s just let a president shrink national monuments (bears ears aka Indian creek) unchecked, that won’t set a precedent.

Alan Rubinwrote:

...
Grug, as has been noted in other threads, your 'statement' is factually incorrect. The AF did not 'waste' "millions of our dollars" in any law suit. First, the AF has never had 'millions' to spend on any project, and definitely has never actually expended such amounts, including the suit in question. In that circumstance, the AF was just one of a number of organizations and individuals that participated in and contributed funds to that effort, and was far from the largest contributor. Second, realistically, law suits are an important tool, and sometimes the only one, in the constant efforts to protect our climbing resources and to maintain at least some degree of freedom to climb with a minimum of restriction and regulation. Such law suits aren't always successful ( in any field ), but it is still often necessary to pursue them ( you usually won't know the end results unless you try) and, on occasion, even initial losses can lead to long-term beneficial results.

But, yes, do donate to your local organizations, but also to the AF as well, as many important initiatives are beyond the scope of such, usually small, local groups.

I see that the factually incorrect statement has continued to be propagated by the mistaken.

1. The case has not been decided by a court. It is still active, but stayed based on Biden's action in 2021.

2.  The AF is only a tiny part of the consolidated plaintiff groups.
"The first challenge was brought on December 4, 2017 by the Ute Indian Tribe, Navajo Nation, Hopi Tribe, Ute Mountain Ute Tribe, and Zuni Tribe (collectively, “Tribal Plaintiffs”).

The second was brought on December 6, 2017 by Utah Dine Bikeyah, Conservation Lands Foundation, Inc., Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, Patagonia Works, Friends of Cedar Mesa, National Trust for Historic Preservation, Archaeology Southwest, and The Access Fund (collectively, “UDB Plaintiffs”).

And the third challenge was brought on December 7, 2017 by the Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., National Parks Conservation Association, The Wilderness Society, Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, Grand Canyon Trust, Great Old Broads for Wilderness, Western Watersheds Project, Sierra Club, Center for Biological Diversity, Wildearth Guardians, and Defenders of Wildlife (collectively, “NRDC Plaintiffs”). 

https://www.nrdc.org/court-battles/nrdc-et-v-trump-bears-ears

3. A separate, different active case
https://www.nrdc.org/court-battles/garfield-county-et-v-biden-et-and-dalton-et-v-biden-et-bears-ears-and-grand-staircase

Hide!!! The sky is falling... 

Blockchain 

Blockchain 

Blockchain 

Why does a Boomer have to point this out to all you kids?

Do you think there's an advantage to donating fiat with it's immense waste and corruption?

And f*ck the IRS. It deserves to burn.

Alan Rubinwrote:

Grug, as has been noted in other threads, your 'statement' is factually incorrect. The AF did not 'waste' "millions of our dollars" in any law suit. First, the AF has never had 'millions' to spend on any project, and definitely has never actually expended such amounts, including the suit in question. In that circumstance, the AF was just one of a number of organizations and individuals that participated in and contributed funds to that effort, and was far from the largest contributor. Second, realistically, law suits are an important tool, and sometimes the only one, in the constant efforts to protect our climbing resources and to maintain at least some degree of freedom to climb with a minimum of restriction and regulation. Such law suits aren't always successful ( in any field ), but it is still often necessary to pursue them ( you usually won't know the end results unless you try) and, on occasion, even initial losses can lead to long-term beneficial results.

Okay thats a lot of words to say what exactly? What did the lawsuit do? 

grug gwrote:

Okay thats a lot of words to say what exactly? What did the lawsuit do? 

The words, unlike yours, were accurate and truthful.

As far as the specific case, as posted above, it is still on-going. It did initially help prevent Trump's initial attempts to dismantle Bear's Wars/Escalante and has since been on 'hold'. Since, unfortunately, I expect that Trump will try again, I presume that the suit will then be revived.

Not surprisingly, though, you have yet to acknowledge and apologize for your factual misstatements.

Alan Rubinwrote:

The words, unlike yours, were accurate and truthful.

As far as the specific case, as posted above, it is still on-going. It did initially help prevent Trump's initial attempts to dismantle Bear's Wars/Escalante and has since been on 'hold'. Since, unfortunately, I expect that Trump will try again, I presume that the suit will then be revived.

Not surprisingly, though, you have yet to acknowledge and apologize for your factual misstatements.

Unlike a lot of people on here I'm not above being wrong. Seems like a sensitive issue for you. 

How much money was spent on the lawsuit? 

When is it going to be resolved? 

If it was a coalition, what was the AF's contribution %?

grug gwrote:

Unlike a lot of people on here I'm not above being wrong. Seems like a sensitive issue for you. 

How much money was spent on the lawsuit? 

When is it going to be resolved? 

If it was a coalition, what was the AF's contribution %?

Part of the strategy sometimes is to delay until a new president undos the bad, which is exactly what happened when Biden was elected, he restored bears ears and grand staircase. Problem is we F’ed up and let Herr Fuehrer back after his putsch.

grug gwrote:

How much money was spent on the lawsuit? 

You're the one that brought this up and claimed the AF spent "millions" on it, so it seems like you ought to have the answer to this question?

grug gwrote:

Remember when the Access Fund spent (wasted) millions of our dollars suing the trump administration? What a waste of money. 

Donate to your local organizations. 

Don't expect monumental vistas, but there are some great areas of the park. It is a huge conservation and preservation success story and should be lauded for that.