CLIMBERS, OUR PUBLIC LANDS NEED YOU!

x15x15wrote:

Its not like the Access Fund is a political party where donations must be documented.  But who's gonna drive to AF to donate cash?!

I think its called an Unrestricted Donation. However, with the Unrestricted Donation, the nonprofit can use the money anyway they want. As long as it doesn't violate IRS code 501c granted under the 509a. (I think)

Is the Access Fund actually a PAC? LOL... They would then have to document personal info for donations.

What are you talking about?  the IRS has all kinds of rules for 501(c)(3) organizations like the Access Fund.

Direct quote from IRS for 990 Schedule B instructions: "Section 501(c)(3) organizations… must report the names and addresses of their contributors in Part I, column (b), on Schedule B."

"Certain tax-exempt organizations are no longer required to report the names and addresses of their contributors on Schedule B (Form 990). However, these organizations must continue to keep this information in their books and records."

This is one of the weirdest MP threads in recent history, and that's saying something.  Maybe after watching RFK talk about autism, people are feeling empowered to just say whatever the hell they want, regardless of accuracy?

Jabroni McChufferson wrote:

lol you can just got make a cash donations anomalously at a crag events the AF has frequently across this beautiful country 

See, even the AF will gladly take cash. 

Kyle Tarrywrote: This is one of the weirdest MP threads in recent history, and that's saying something.  Maybe after watching RFK talk about autism, people are feeling empowered to just say whatever the hell they want, regardless of accuracy?

Uh oh, someone's salty.  Let's not get this thread moved to politics where it will die in obscurity.

But seriously, what if you just mailed some cash to their office?

Zay in Monterey wrote:

Talk all the shit you want, Cherokee's concerns are 100 per cent valid. Its fucking crap that this day and age everyone and their mother wants a piece of your info from your address to your phone number, and its just as sad that youre all so willing to give it away freely

Your info is so easily found online. If you’ve ever bought anything online, your info is out there. It’s laughable when people complain about this stuff while using a smart phone.

I'll just say - nice job derailing this thread. Public lands are under a serious and unrelenting threat and this crowd goes all tin foil hat on personal info that virtually every retailer already has. Please focus, the trump administration and especially the guy they are going to put up to run the USFS are evil.

I can only speak for myself. I have raised legitimate questions about how the Access Fund would manage my personal data, privacy, and transparency. This does not mean I reject the Access Fund’s mission—I fully support your goals. I appreciate that the Fund responded, but for me, the issues remain. They could be easily fixed.

In Europe, data minimisation is a fundamental cornerstone of data protection law, and there is a clear distinction between the minimal amount of data legally required and optional data. The EU and US are not the same, but those are good principles to follow. As it stands, the Access Fund does not appear to be practising data minimisation, and donors are automatically opted into communications. For some, this may not be a concern. For those who value privacy or simply expect a higher standard from their non-profits, it’s a hurdle.

Please consider revising your donation form and privacy policy. 

The first question should be the donation amount, because that dictates what data is legally required. After collecting the minimum, clearly separate what is optional. If you want more information, explain why, convince us, and let us decide. Change your communication strategy to require donors to opt in, rather than automatically opting them in. Respect our time—don’t force us to take corrective measures after the fact or make this process unclear. Nobody wants to spend time managing unwanted communications or wondering how their data has been used or who it’s already been shared with.

This thread hasn’t been derailed, but it does show how quickly polarization can happen and the name calling starts. We’re all climbers here. Please implement a solution that addresses these concerns, so we can all go about donating. These are my personal views and suggestions, shared in good faith.

Noel Zwrote:

 I have raised legitimate questions about how the Access Fund would manage my personal data, privacy, and transparency…

Nobody wants to spend time managing unwanted communications or wondering how their data has been used or who it’s already been shared with.

So every time you buy something online, do you post a manifesto?

I went and asked AI how blockchain could solve this. The response was lengthy and complex, too much to post here. So I cut and copied the first few paragraphs. You people need to move on from government as much as you can, as fast as you can. 

Grok: "Yes, creating an anonymous donation system using blockchain is feasible and could address the concerns raised by Cherokee Nunes on the Mountain Project forum about the Access Fund requiring personal information for donations. Blockchain technology offers transparency, security, and the potential for anonymity, making it ideal for such a system. Below, I outline how this could work, tailored to the context of the Access Fund and the issues highlighted.Why Blockchain for Anonymous Donations?Blockchain’s decentralized, immutable, and transparent ledger can ensure donations are tracked from donor to recipient without requiring personal information, addressing privacy concerns while maintaining trust. Key features like transparency, immutability, and efficiency have been shown to improve donor trust in nonprofit organizations (NPOs).Proposed Anonymous Donation System Using BlockchainHere’s a high-level framework for an anonymous donation system that could be implemented for the Access Fund:Blockchain Platform Selection:Ethereum: A public-permissioned Ethereum blockchain is suitable due to its robust smart contract capabilities, widely used for donation systems. It allows transparent tracking of transactions while supporting anonymity through cryptographic methods.Alternative Platforms: Platforms like Binance Smart Chain or Polygon could be considered for lower transaction fees, though Ethereum remains a standard for nonprofit applications due to its security and ecosystem."

Noel Zwrote:

The first question should be the donation amount, because that dictates what data is legally required.

This is not correct.  Many legal requirements are based on the total amount an individual donated over the course of a year.  Since multiple donations can be made, and nobody can predict what they will do in the future, organizations need identification to associate with all donations in order to verify legal requirements per donor for the fiscal year.

X Foliatorwrote:

I went and asked AI how blockchain could solve this. The response was lengthy and complex, too much to post here. So I cut and copied the first few paragraphs. You people need to move on from government as much as you can, as fast as you can. 

Grok: "Yes, creating an anonymous donation system using blockchain is feasible and could address the concerns raised by Cherokee Nunes on the Mountain Project forum about the Access Fund requiring personal information for donations. Blockchain technology offers transparency, security, and the potential for anonymity, making it ideal for such a system. Below, I outline how this could work, tailored to the context of the Access Fund and the issues highlighted.Why Blockchain for Anonymous Donations?Blockchain’s decentralized, immutable, and transparent ledger can ensure donations are tracked from donor to recipient without requiring personal information, addressing privacy concerns while maintaining trust. Key features like transparency, immutability, and efficiency have been shown to improve donor trust in nonprofit organizations (NPOs).Proposed Anonymous Donation System Using BlockchainHere’s a high-level framework for an anonymous donation system that could be implemented for the Access Fund:Blockchain Platform Selection:Ethereum: A public-permissioned Ethereum blockchain is suitable due to its robust smart contract capabilities, widely used for donation systems. It allows transparent tracking of transactions while supporting anonymity through cryptographic methods.Alternative Platforms: Platforms like Binance Smart Chain or Polygon could be considered for lower transaction fees, though Ethereum remains a standard for nonprofit applications due to its security and ecosystem."

Probably a scam, like most crypto options, and, realistically, nothing computer-based can ever be totally secure, no matter how hard those operating it attempt to keep it so. I'm much more paranoid about using such 'systems' than I am with sharing my information with the AF!!!!

Kyle, I'm not sure that you are totally correct, at least in practice, as many non-profits accept, at least small, cash, anonymous donations either in person or through donation drop-off locations.

They should just remove that bullshit anonymous checkbox. Its a lie.

Good day.

Cherokee Nuneswrote:

They should just remove that bullshit anonymous checkbox. Its a lie.

No, it's not.  As the AF explained in their first post in this thread, that checkbox marks your donation as anonymous in publicly available records.

Kyle, I'm not sure that you are totally correct, at least in practice, as many non-profits accept, at least small, cash, anonymous donations either in person or through donation drop-off locations

I believe event fundraising cash donations are tracked different on IRS form 990.  Since personal info is available for online donations, it would make sense that accounting best practices (which are likely required in the case of an audit) include collecting that info.  I think there is a whole set of legal experts who advise these sorts of organizations, it seems like we can probably just assume that general accounting best practices are being followed because they are legally required.  

A few anonymous MP posters who aren't tax experts might feel otherwise, but there are also plenty of people who think the COVID vaccine is a 5g conspiracy orchestrated by Bill Gates, so I don't think we need to take seriously the musings of internet crackpots.

I regret getting sucked into this thread, I am fired up about all the current threats to public land and felt the need to respond to perceived misinformation about the AF that might reduce people's willingness to donate.  In hindsight, I don't think any of this will be effective in the way I intended.

Remember when the Access Fund spent (wasted) millions of our dollars suing the trump administration? What a waste of money. 

Donate to your local organizations. 

Kyle Tarrywrote:

No, it's not.  As the AF explained in their first post in this thread, that checkbox marks your donation as anonymous in publicly available records.  That is a totally acceptable and common use of that word, and just because it's not exactly what you want, doesn't make it untrue.

I believe event fundraising cash donations are tracked different on IRS form 990.  Since personal info is available for online donations, it would make sense that accounting best practices (which are likely required in the case of an audit) include collecting that info.  I think there is a whole set of legal experts who advise these sorts of organizations, it seems like we can probably just assume that general accounting best practices are being followed because they are legally required.  

A few anonymous MP posters who aren't tax experts might feel otherwise, but there are also plenty of people who think the COVID vaccine is a 5g conspiracy orchestrated by Bill Gates, so I don't think we need to take seriously the musings of internet crackpots.

Kyle, putting aside 'event donations' ( though I don't recall ever being asked for my information when I have made such donations), I belong to a registered non-profit LCO which has 'recepticles' for cash donations at some local crags and nearby climbing gyms, and am aware of other organizations that follow the same practice. Folks just put in the cash when they wish to do so, almost invariably small amounts ( but it adds up!!!), but there is no mechanism for providing personal information, nor is it requested. I am sure that the organizations in question follow appropriate 'accounting best practices' for such donations, but, obviously, this does not include any information concerning the truly anonymous donors. Again, I have nothing against the AF asking for my information when I make a donation, and understand why they do so, but just trying to point out that there is indeed an existing 'anonymous option', at least for small amounts of money.

Grug, as has been noted in other threads, your 'statement' is factually incorrect. The AF did not 'waste' "millions of our dollars" in any law suit. First, the AF has never had 'millions' to spend on any project, and definitely has never actually expended such amounts, including the suit in question. In that circumstance, the AF was just one of a number of organizations and individuals that participated in and contributed funds to that effort, and was far from the largest contributor. Second, realistically, law suits are an important tool, and sometimes the only one, in the constant efforts to protect our climbing resources and to maintain at least some degree of freedom to climb with a minimum of restriction and regulation. Such law suits aren't always successful ( in any field ), but it is still often necessary to pursue them ( you usually won't know the end results unless you try) and, on occasion, even initial losses can lead to long-term beneficial results.

But, yes, do donate to your local organizations, but also to the AF as well, as many important initiatives are beyond the scope of such, usually small, local groups.

grug gwrote:

Remember when the Access Fund spent (wasted) millions of our dollars suing the trump administration? What a waste of money. 

Donate to your local organizations. 

Do tell!

Per the IRS instructions for Schedule B of Form 990, individual donations less than $1,000 each can be disregarded for purposes of calculating the annual total.

As many have noted, there are already a number of ways for people to donate small amounts anonymously to nonprofits. “Round up for charity” at the cash register. Buying raffle tickets with cash. Passing a collection basket around. Donation box in the parking lot. Etc. All legal.

And the Access Fund has already clarified that phone and address are optional; they need name, email so their card processor will execute the transaction.

The various regulatory conversations are mostly wrong so far, and beside the point. Practically speaking it is very difficult to take anonymous payments online because of fraud defenses at card processors. And practically speaking, you can’t run a serious nonprofit on random anonymous donations anyway, so it’s not worth trying.

I encourage folks to support nonprofits of your choice with money AND by sharing contact info. These are not Best Buy trying to spam you to buy more TVs. They are mission-driven orgs and being able to reach us and other supporters is part of how they will do what we want them to do. 

James -wrote:

The various regulatory conversations are mostly wrong so far, and beside the point. Practically speaking it is very difficult to take anonymous payments online because of fraud defenses at card processors. And practically speaking, you can’t run a serious nonprofit on random anonymous donations anyway, so it’s not worth trying.

I encourage folks to support nonprofits of your choice with money AND by sharing contact info. These are not Best Buy trying to spam you to buy more TVs. They are mission-driven orgs and being able to reach us and other supporters is part of how they will do what we want them to do. 

I want to see AF try and convince Cherokee to give them his email address.

I think the above argument is more in the right vein, repeat donations are the AF’s bread and butter. That contact info probably really is worth more to them, on average, than the one time donation.

But, even if grug is wrong about suing the Trump administration being a waste, he brings up the point that there is an impression that a lot of the allies and contacts the AF has cultivated are not now in positions of power. Can the AF get much done in te next 2 years? It’s likely to involve convincing people to do the “right” thing even when federal authority is incompetent or pointing the wrong way.

So it’s not that Cherokee’s email address matters. But it is a chance for the AF to demonstrate that they can at least convince their allies to do something they’re reticent to do. If AF can’t demonstrate that, I’m not sure they can do the much harder convincing our donations would fund.

Eric Mosswrote:

Do tell!

Note I am not taking a political stance.

Back in 2017 the Access Fund rose up with all the other frothing anti-trump-at-any-cost crowd and decided to spend millions of our dollars on a lawsuit to sue the Trump administration. Of course nothing came of it because nothing can stop Teflon-Don. Instead of using our money for improving climbing, they sued Donny T which was a futile endeavor from the beginning. 

Donny T is a douche, but a small non-profit like the Access Fund trying to sue the greatest con-man ever? That's like you trying to on-site free solo el cap - its a joke and a waste. 

Clearly America is in need of a nationwide marksmanship program.

apogeewrote:

Clearly America is in need of a nationwide marksmanship program.

I believe that's called the US military