New and experienced climbers over 50 #36

Randywrote:

Gabe, I'm sorry about your father's recent passing. He was obviously not only a great scientist, but inspiration to many.

I think his time at Princeton overlapped with that of Lyman Spitzer, an astrophysicist who was also a devoted climber and mountaineer. It was my privilege to have climbed with Lyman on many occasions and even established a FA with him in Joshua Tree.

Thanks Randy.  Was he an inspiration to someone you know/knew?

Lyman Spitzer may possibly have hired my dad, I'm not sure. Certainly they overlapped for many years (my father was hired in 1965), and i know my dad had tremendous respect for him. Spitzer is a good reference point for this thread, actually, as i remember as a teenager being very impressed that he continued to climb at the Gunks into his seventies or perhaps eighties, I'm not sure. I  think i remember hearing when he stopped leading. 

GO

I can see some young lurkers looking at these photos and wondering where the pads are. Nice old pics there, I bet there is no vegetation anywhere to be seen near that rock now.

John Gill, I'm not sure I understand your question. However, I can tell you that my dad was hired at Princeton in 1965. Both of my parents applied for positions at that time. My mother received a slim envelope in response. The brief and condescending letter it contained read, more or less, as follows:

"Dear Miss Ostriker, (despite her holding a Ph.D.)

As a brief scan through our faculty roster would have informed you, we do not hire female faculty at Princeton. Sincerely..."

Perhaps you feel that the affirmative action policies which began shortly thereafter did more harm than good. As you might imagine, I have a different perspective.

Cheers, 

GO

Kristian Solemwrote:

So, Lori's taken an interest in stemming, I see. She even mentioned Streetcar (a Josh classic V6/7). That moves me to put up a few pics Lynn Bowering took of me doing that thing in about 1995. The alternative to stemming it is to run straight at it as fast as you can. I could never get myself to even try that. I was always pretty static in my movements.

Kris, Kris. Good grief.  I heard about this running start, which you didn’t do. I guess I have to wander over there and see this beauty in person .  Look at that tiny little towel at the bottom. What exactly was that supposed to do?   

This reminds me of a Houser route that I felt duty bound to try. It was impossible for me, of course. I hit my head, I got claustrophobic in there. Eventually, I just went around and sat on top in total defeat.  Two Scoops Please.  

Tony came through his surgery just fine. I did NOT come through his surgery just fine. I spent almost 10 hours in that hospital waiting to find out if he was dead or alive. The surgery was to be at 10 and last 45 minutes. Apparently that’s exactly what happened, but they didn’t tell me.  
There are volunteers who man the desks in this hospital. The surgical volunteer told me they couldn’t find Tony. Maybe he’s in preop. Maybe he’s in surgery or maybe he’s “somewhere else“. They were supposed to come bring me back as soon as he was awake. At 5 o’clock after the waiting room had emptied out I rang the nurses bell and asked her where Tony was. She said “probably being taken to his room“. Do you know where his room is?? She shrugged her shoulders. She assured me the surgeon would call me to let me know how it all went. He didn’t. I finally said fuck it and drove home. I got a call from Tony at 11 o’clock… He had no idea what time it was, but he was very chipper.

So that’s the second time this has happened at Eisenhower Hospital and I will never go back there and will certainly be writing to the hospital administrator..

You would think upon discharge they would at least let me know what his home orders were, but they didn’t. He doesn’t remember what he’s supposed to do.  Fortunately, he looks good and I think his new hip is going to be a keeper.

—-

We went to Cave corridor today to climb a few routes including Three Dog Night, but I wasn’t on my game at all. The rock is very grainy with lots of tiny loose rocks that take your footing out from beneath you, like ball bearings.  I was just rattled by it and didn’t want to put my full weight on any holds, especially negligible crunchy smears. 

So really good news is I have had my eye on another stemming route and ran it by Bob and he said he could climb it with “100% certainty”. That’s a big start.     That means I can dream about it all summer.  

Lori, glad to hear about Tony, but that hospital -- wow!  

In his oval room, in his rockin' chair
He's the president, but I don't care
He's a business man, he got business ties
He got dollar signs in both his eyes
Got a big airplane, take him everywhere
Got his limousine, when he get there
Everywhere he goes, make the people mad
Makes the poor man beg, and the rich man glad

He's the president, but I don't care
Ooh, Ooh, Ooh

At the factory, never been so slow
Got a big fourth down, ninety nine to go
And down on the farm, nothing growing there
But the debts they owe and their gray hair
In the desert sand, and the jungle deep
He thinks everything is his to keep
He's a real cowboy, with his makeup on
Talks to kings and queens on the telephone

He's the president, but I don't care
Ooh, Ooh, Ooh

He's a movie star, if you stay up late
And he'll search your car, if you don't look straight
In his Oval Room, in his rockin' chair
He's the president, but I don't care

GabeOwrote:

John Gill, I'm not sure I understand your question. However, I can tell you that my dad was hired at Princeton in 1965. Both of my parents applied for positions at that time. My mother received a slim envelope in response. The brief and condescending letter it contained read, more or less, as follows:

"Dear Miss Ostriker, (despite her holding a Ph.D.)

As a brief scan through our faculty roster would have informed you, we do not hire female faculty at Princeton. Sincerely..."

Perhaps you feel that the affirmative action policies which began shortly thereafter did more harm than good. As you might imagine, I have a different perspective.

Cheers, 

GO

I worked out in the academic boonies, but that is beyond the pale. In the 1980s there were maybe a third of the mathematics faculty who were women. But when I started there in 1971 there was no one with a PhD in mathematics in the math department, and four of us - all men - were hired to upgrade the department. There were relatively few women PhDs available nationwide, and they could go to more prestigious schools.

As I stated, I supported AA, but correctly implemented. Here is the incident that disturbed me: In the late 1980s we advertised for a new faculty member with reasonable and negotiable professional traits. The hiring process went strictly by the AA code and that was admirable. After going through several steps we presented our final list to the dean, I think maybe three men and one, possibly two woman. I don't recall. Then the dean noticed an applicant who was of an unusual racial minority, but who for various reasons we all thought unsuitable for our faculty. The dean said, why not put him in the top group so it looks good? We conveyed our strong objections, but into the top group went this candidate. When it came time for the dean to pick our new faculty member, guess who was chosen?

Over the following several years this new member performed at passable levels, but when it came time to award tenure, I was on the school committee and we all said no. The candidate had done no research or beyond organizing a chess club, had done little service other than teaching. The dean, however, was determined to grant tenure, but the department chair at the time revealed that this member had recently chased a fellow faculty member's wife around a house at a party, groping her sexually. The dean grumbled, but finally conceded and the man was let go. 

We could have had a fine female colleague during those years, but didn't.

Kristian Solemwrote:

So, Lori's taken an interest in stemming, I see. She even mentioned Streetcar (a Josh classic V6/7). That moves me to put up a few pics Lynn Bowering took of me doing that thing in about 1995. The alternative to stemming it is to run straight at it as fast as you can. I could never get myself to even try that. I was always pretty static in my movements.

Love the towel on the ground. 

Someone asked earlier… we used a towel on the ground to keep our shoes clean before stepping up on the rock. I assume it was the same for Kristian. (I suspect dirty shoes is a primary cause of polished holds, plus your footwork is less secure.)

Relatedly… The one and only time I have hurt myself climbing was while bouldering outside… fell off and backward, straight-arming the ground behind me, and dislocated an elbow. Very painful. The cushion from the towel wasn’t quite enough to absorb the impact.  ; )   

I don’t boulder outside at all any more, but I do so indoors in gyms where there is good padding—but I refuse to do crux/insecure moves that are high up. I’ve seen folks twist ankles or even break an ankle falling in weird ways from up high, so I try to downclimb as much as I can and avoid those scary high moves. (Much respect for those highball boulderers out there, but it’s not for me!)

GabeOwrote:

John Gill, I'm not sure I understand your question. However, I can tell you that my dad was hired at Princeton in 1965. Both of my parents applied for positions at that time. My mother received a slim envelope in response. The brief and condescending letter it contained read, more or less, as follows:

"Dear Miss Ostriker, (despite her holding a Ph.D.)

As a brief scan through our faculty roster would have informed you, we do not hire female faculty at Princeton. Sincerely..."

Perhaps you feel that the affirmative action policies which began shortly thereafter did more harm than good. As you might imagine, I have a different perspective.

Cheers, 

GO

I don't know about the current situation with faculty hiring at Princeton but AA still exists for undergraduate admissions. It's called legacy preferences and was unaffected by the 2023 Supreme Court decision. And mostly helps children of wealthy white parents. Oddly enough conservatives are not outraged by this practice.

GabeOwrote:

My dad was a professor at Princeton. As chairman of the astrophysics department he hired a number of women to join the department, at a time when that was uncommon. He felt that very talented female scientists were undervalued, and knew that his department gained tremendously by having them. 

Later, as provost of the University, he struggled to convince the heads of other departments in math and the hard sciences to see it his way. They had zero female faculty, and claimed that they would be happy to hire women, if only there were any out there up to the very high standards of the rest of their department. So he offered an enticement. He found a pool of money to support one full faculty position. If the heads of these four departments could find just a single candidate between them (at least that must be possible, right?) that measured up to their high standards, the University would pay for the position. Well suddenly there were so many qualified candidates for each of the departments that he wound up funding two positions. He did this again the next year. And the next. By then the point had been made, and things changed. 

He also was concerned about student debt, and the difficulty of bringing in a diverse student body, which he felt was very important. He took a hard look at the finances of the University, and determined that Princeton could afford to pay the full tuition for any students coming from a family at or below the median household income. Not a loan, but a free ride. This was so successful that all of the Ivy League schools copied Princeton. And as best as i understand it, they're still doing it today. 

GO

I believe this is still the case today and I think the Ivies are to be commended for this practice. I really dislike legacy preferences though and some of the Ivies including Princeton still use them. An argument used to justify them is that they encourage alumni donations. This may be true but a side effect is giving an advantage to a group that is mostly white and wealthy.

From a public University perspective we have a practice here in NC that guarantees admission to the states flagship schools for the top students from each county. This increases geographical diversity but quality of schools in different counties varies widely. It doesn't break down cleanly along racial lines though as NC has poor counties that are either mostly white and mostly black with lagging school systems. I have mixed feelings about this practice. It means that better students from some counties may not get admitted but OTOH public universities are supposed to serve everyone in the state.

Tim Schafstallwrote:

Actually it probably won't be a mob scene.  Memorial Day is usually much less crowded than a normal weekend.

I hope that continues to be correct!

Nears:  Yum Yum Yab Yum (Dragons knows the route, so the issue of route finding would be eliminated)

Reports of me "knowing" Yum Yum Yab Yum are highly exaggerated. I did follow it once, in 2022. I'd probably have a vague idea. But I wouldn't lead that with someone else's rack, that's above my pay grade.

Enjoy.  Tell M I said hi !

Hello to you too!

dragons

The towel is to keep your shoes clean.

Anybody seen this... Or maybe I´m just late to the party. Pretty amazing.

"In May of 1966, Richard Long, Steve Roper, and Allen Steck set off to climb El Capitan's Salathe Wall. It was the route's second ascent, and the first time anyone brought a motion picture camera up the world's most famous cliff. In this newly restored and digitized dvd, Roper and Steck recount their historic climb by narrating the film just as they've done over the years at public screenings... "

Victor Creazziwrote:

The towel is to keep your shoes clean.

I use a small carpet square.  I am always amazed at the number of people who insist on having the latest high tech sticky rubber and then stand in the dirt in order to start the route.  As was stated previously, it also polishes the footholds.

Daniel Joderwrote:

Anybody seen this... Or maybe I´m just late to the party. Pretty amazing.

"In May of 1966, Richard Long, Steve Roper, and Allen Steck set off to climb El Capitan's Salathe Wall. It was the route's second ascent, and the first time anyone brought a motion picture camera up the world's most famous cliff. In this newly restored and digitized dvd, Roper and Steck recount their historic climb by narrating the film just as they've done over the years at public screenings... "

 

I very much remember that climb--it was an important part of Steck's ' climbing comeback' after taking some 'time off'--relatively speaking, for business and family reasons---a comeback that culminated in the ( still, I believe, unrepeated via the original route) FA of the Hummingbird Ridge on Mt. Logan. We were all so amazed by how 'old' Steck was at the time he did those climbs---after all, he was in his early 40s!!!!

Yup! I first heard about bringing a small doormat to use bouldering on my first trip to Bleau.  The guide I hired said it was purely to protect the boulders and nothing to do with climbing grades!

First photo is from a cold day in eastern France at a small bouldering area and the second one is my second son barefoot bouldering in Bleau in 2018.  He must have been channeling his inner Charles Albert!

I just keep the doormat in my folded crash pad at all times now.

Buck Rogerswrote:

Yup! I first heard about bringing a small doormat to use bouldering on my first trip to Bleau.  The guide I hired said it was purely to protect the boulders and nothing to do with climbing grades!

First photo is from a cold day in eastern France at a small bouldering area and the second one is my second son barefoot bouldering in Bleau in 2018.  He must have been channeling his inner Charles Albert!

I just keep the doormat in my folded crash pad at all times now.

Bob is pretty much a fanatic about the soles of his climbing shoes. For five years now I have watched him shed those shoes the instant he’s back on the ground and on go the tennis shoes or approach shoes. Meanwhile, I wore my TC pros around like house slippers for years.   

It may be a thing to protect the rock, but for certain it’s to protect the climb. Whenever I’m ready to launch on hard slab or stemming inevitably I hear “you might wanna clean off your shoes”. I’ve watched Bob hand scrub his soles until you can hear them squeak.  He trusts his feet, I don’t trust mine.

That seems to be the difference in these steep face climbs. You don’t want a granule of sand or dirt on your shoes.  Yesterday on our gritty routes I felt like I was in a roller derby, but Bob did not seem to be phased at all.  He’s telling me to “focus and concentrate“ better on this kitty litter.  I was just trying to hang on for dear life.  He has a formula for cleaning new rock as he goes and warns me not to step up on rock that hasn’t been climbed before. Do I listen?   

—-

I am fed up with Tony.  From the day we met he has elected to be the sole dishwasher. He takes the job seriously and he has been in the kitchen two or three times every single day, sleeves rolled up, doing those dishes.  But I think he should give it a rest on the f’ing day after surgery.  Go sit down! I can do the dishes!  He just couldn’t bear it. I have reminded him what happened last time. So I’m hovering and just praying that he doesn’t fall or hurt himself.  He wants to be left alone to do his dishes so I’m going to Walmart, 

Lori Milaswrote:

It may be a thing to protect the rock, but for certain it’s to protect the climb. Whenever I’m ready to launch on hard slab or stemming inevitably I hear “you might wanna clean off your shoes”. I’ve watched Bob hand scrub his soles until you can hear them squeak.  He trusts his feet, I don’t trust mine.

Ha!  

Oh yes but my comment was about the fanatical protection the locals have for "their" boulders in Bleau.

I always clean the soles of my climbing shoes before starting off on a problem or pitch when outdoors and even sometimes indoors!

;)

dragonswrote:

Reports of me "knowing" Yum Yum Yab Yum are highly exaggerated. I did follow it once, in 2022. I'd probably have a vague idea. But I wouldn't lead that with someone else's rack, that's above my pay grade.

Memory refreshers.