Accept that bouldering and followed closely by sport climbing has taken over from rock climbing .

M M wrote:

It's easier to make content about bouldering because 1- the camera is always rolling  and 2- the crowd is very consumeristic on top of them pushing the limits.  I totally agree about the crowds at the traditional areas, places like the Gunks and IC have people waiting in line. Of course you have real traditional areas like the San Rafael Swell south where you need binoculars to find the next protection, areas like this aren't becoming more popular because real commitment to runouts isn't becoming more popular. 

I'd almost say soloing is more popular now than runout climbing these days.

I presume that you know ( though others reading this thread likely are unaware) that  many ( most?, all?) those runout routes that you refer to at The Swell were established by the OP of this thread.

Alan Rubin wrote:

I presume that you know ( though others reading this thread likely are unaware) that  many ( most?, all?) those runout routes that you refer to at The Swell were established by the OP of this thread.

Here is what I saved from a similar lament years back:

The hardmen before your time climbed on hemp ropes tied around their waists, in leather boots.  Anything invented since then is a crutch.

I like how you have conveniently selected the moment in time when you were a good climber as your basis for what everybody should and shouldn't do.  You can't select any arbitrary time before yours, because then you would be a newfangled sissy like you want to label the rest of us.  You can't select any arbitrary time after your heyday, because then you would need to admit that sport climbing isn't terrible.

I guess when you're so narcissistic that you are your own standard for excellence, it's easy to look down your nose at everyone else.
HealyJE

What, exactly, have they taken over?

(With your crown came nothing....)

M Sprague wrote:

I know quite a few from climbing I wouldn't say that about, who are still wonderful, meaning they are nice to know and also full of wonderment.

You know quite a few 85-90 year old climbers? 

The good old days. When men were men, and they bolted/nailed 5.8. And when did rock climbers take over from hardcore alpine and Himalayan climbers?  

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

You know quite a few 85-90 year old climbers? 

Relatively speaking, or at least pretty close to it. I'm not naming names in case they are 20 years younger /s.

looks like Paul did a hit and run. The last time I chatted with him he was berating a 66yr old grandmother for sport climbing instead of trad climbing...  And its not that she doesn't trad climb . we just happened to be sport climbing that day. 

LOL, I recently posted about douche bags saying this or that style of climbing isn't climbing.

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

You know quite a few 85-90 year old climbers? 

I’m pretty sure he’s saying that he’s a visitor from the future. 

Chronically Injured wrote:

Most people who complain about bouldering and go on and on about how boulderers either don’t have technique or lack boldness lack the aforementioned themselves. 

In Paul's defense, bitd he was a strong climber and quite bold. 

His routes in the Swell suggest his boldness hasn't totally evaporated.

I'm speculating, but I believe he found those risky experiences meaningful and worthwhile, and this is his awkward way of encouraging others to have similar, powerful experiences.

I'm with him on this, even though I'm now just a boulderer who occasionally sport climbs.

Bold adventures are worthwhile.

Back then, it was acceptable and effective to badger people about their bravery or manliness to get them to try something bold.

But times change. That type of persuasion just seems kind of pathetic now.

Nevertheless, he's right. 

If the prospect of having an adventure calls to you, answer the call.

What is real climbing. Tope rope climbing isn't real climbing because it is TR. Lead sport climbing isn't real climbing because you don't carry the trad gear or spend time placing it, trad lead climbing isn't real climbing because if you fall you have protection, soloing isn't real climbing because you don't have the weight of the rack or rope. Bouldering isnt climbing because if it was they would call it boulder climbing, like sport climbing, trad climbing, or free climbing. Real climbing is free solo climbing with a rope and trad rack where you place the gear as you go so you have all the weight, and challenge of gear but no belayer to protect you. 

M M wrote:

It's easier to make content about bouldering because 1- the camera is always rolling  and 2- the crowd is very consumeristic on top of them pushing the limits.  I totally agree about the crowds at the traditional areas, places like the Gunks and IC have people waiting in line. Of course you have real traditional areas like the San Rafael Swell south where you need binoculars to find the next protection, areas like this aren't becoming more popular because real commitment to runouts isn't becoming more popular. 

I'd almost say soloing is more popular now than runout climbing these days.

FWIW, there's plenty of younger people doing bold ascents here in NC; I don't know that I'd say thats the status quo but at least the spirit is alive and well.

Ben maxwell wrote:

What is real climbing. Tope rope climbing isn't real climbing because it is TR. Lead sport climbing isn't real climbing because you don't carry the trad gear or spend time placing it, trad lead climbing isn't real climbing because if you fall you have protection, soloing isn't real climbing because you don't have the weight of the rack or rope. Bouldering isnt climbing because if it was they would call it boulder climbing, like sport climbing, trad climbing, or free climbing. Real climbing is free solo climbing with a rope and trad rack where you place the gear as you go so you have all the weight, and challenge of gear but no belayer to protect you. 

In all fairness, bold climbing is basically just free-soloing while dragging around a rope and gear you can't place 

The OP is just sharing good news.

Alan Rubin wrote:

I'm a senior citizen, but pretty interesting that we have 2 of my 'elders' posting here on MP--one, Paul Ross ( whom I admire greatly, but still...), claiming that bouldering isn't rock climbing, but then there is John Gill--who has spent a lifetime proving otherwise.

All aspects of climbing are variations on a theme. None have any intrinsic value beyond that which each provides to the individual practitioners---and that is sufficient.

Hi Paul, good to see that you are still enjoying stirring things up!!!

Hi Al .. Yes still upright ..most days! Now down to E biking ,still with a element  of danger . Just think the lads are missing out on a bit of risk ,I always found that the most important part of rock climbing ... However always amazed at the enthusiasm with folk messing about on a boulder, yes we did that in the 1950's when it was too wet to climb  but never took it seriously. Anyway as you say just thought I would stir things up a bit ..still trapped in the crap weather of the UK ... big mistake leaving Colorado !! All the Best Paul

Paul Ross wrote:

Hi Al .. Yes still upright ..most days! Now down to E biking ,still with a element  of danger . Just think the lads are missing out on a bit of risk ,I always found that the most important part of rock climbing ... However always amazed at the enthusiasm with folk messing about on a boulder, yes we did that in the 1950's when it was too wet to climb  but never took it seriously. Anyway as you say just thought I would stir things up a bit ..still trapped in the crap weather of the UK ... big mistake leaving Colorado !! All the Best Paul

I was shocked 25+ years ago when bouldering guidebooks started appearing , still to this day folks are claiming FAs on boulders that were definitely climbed back when nobody cared to document them. 

Some youngster perspective: I end up spend most of my time sports climbing, but I do find big trad/alpine rock days the most memorable, enjoyable and character-building (that I actually learn some lessons applicable to "real life"), especially if it's a bit wandery, chossy and runout. If you come from the mountain background, going through the usual ladder of hiking, backpacking, scrambling, and finally climbing, trad climbing simply "make sense". This crew of people are still around and growing, just not as rapidly as the "sports" crew. 

With gym/comp, climbing is no longer just a mountain activity. It's also a sport. A lot of the "growth of the sports" (hate this term but you get what I mean) is from urban folks who wants to enjoy the movement/gymnastics of climbing without the danger. You might say they are missing out the mountain/trad experience (which is freaking awesome), but for them going to a sports/boulder crag is usually adventurous and scary enough, because otherwise they usually don't do any outdoor stuff. That's already a win in my book. 

M Sprague wrote:

Relatively speaking, or at least pretty close to it. I'm not naming names in case they are 20 years younger .

So, no?

@Paul Ross - have you seen the "boulders" the youths are doing these days? Regarding some of the highballs, the consequences are often worse than the worst sport/trad fall...outside of taking a ground fall, which usually feels like the belayers fault (exceptions being poor gear placement or a rouge failed bolt).

With gym/comp, climbing is no longer just a mountain activity. It's also a sport. A lot of the "growth of the sports" (hate this term but you get what I mean) is from urban folks who wants to enjoy the movement/gymnastics of climbing without the danger.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the fad of urban indoor climbing, for its own sake, dies out. 

And it will die out. This is a nation of mostly flat lands, inhabited by flat landers. We can't all be French! I just don't see a climbing gyms being a long term thing in places like Florida. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against any of that. I just wonder what happens when the gold runs out.

By way of example, racquetball used to be a thing, and a lot, if not most gyms had racquetball courts. Then, the blush came off the ole racquetball. Now, there are no racquetball courts. Such spaces were repurposed an new gyms just didn't build courts like that at all. Racquetball is for all commercial purposes, dead.

Fads are like that. Paddleball will die its deserved death too. I just don't see "urban indoor climbing" as a thing that many will continue to do after the fad wears off, except if they also climb outside and are using the gym for training. I suppose, you'll be left with the real climbers, then....

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

So, no?

@Paul Ross - have you seen the "boulders" the youths are doing these days? Regarding some of the highballs, the consequences are often worse than the worst sport/trad fall...outside of taking a ground fall, which usually feels like the belayers fault (exceptions being poor gear placement or a rouge failed bolt).

We have people in that age group in New England, and others very close, who are still active, even putting up new routes. I don't know them all personally as in frequently interact in person, though some I have a bit more in the past . My 20 year comment was a joke, that I thought was obvious. I added an s/ for those who didn't catch that.