New and Experienced Climbers over 50 #34

We already have a name that route thread and a name that mountain thread, maybe you need to start a name that boulder thread.

All I know about grades is be careful of east coast 5.9s…heck, at Seneca I’ve even scared the behoozits out of myself on 5.4!

Ward Smithwrote:

I was there in the 90’s when the Sherman guide that first used the “V” system came out.   We figured that V0- was anything 5.8 or easier (barely a rock climb, as Sherman said in one route description), V0 was 5.9 or 9+, and V0+ was solid 5.10.   I have used this system in the bouldering section of my Rumney guidebook, but most have unfortunately dropped it. 

I'm pretty certain I introduced V-grades to bouldering in New Zealand, in the early 90s. Bouldering at the time was subordinate to ropes, and boulder problems were graded either with route grades (Ewbank) or local-style systems (A, B, C...). I was lucky enough to start climbing in Wellington at Baring Head, which was mostly bouldering (sea "cliffs" above sand, no need for pads which was great as they weren't invented yet). V-grades were being reported in Climbing Magazine and Rock and Ice, and were sometimes compared to YDS grades, so I converted these to Ewbank and went from there to V-grades. I took V0 to be about Ewbank 20. Of some note, Charlie Creese climbed a V8 at Baring Head in the early 80s, miles ahead of the time for NZ especially. It's called A Show of Strength, which I think, but don't know for certain, may have been a nod to John Gill (Pat Ament's book was in Wellington Public Library, how it got there I have no idea). 

Sam Findleywrote:

All I know about grades is be careful of east coast 5.9s…heck, at Seneca I’ve even scared the behoozits out of myself on 5.4!

Hahaha! So true!

Have fun tonight with Paula at the comp Dave, I'll be asleep by the time you start announcing the finals!  

I had a dream last night (nightmare really) that they took down the back 40 degree wall with the red V8 that I was close to sending.  I was like "BUT THEY ARE SETTING A COMP!  THEY CAN'T TAKE IT DOWN!"  I have dreamed about climbing a LOT, but never about indoor routes.  Just shows how low I have fallen.  Anyway, I went in today and it was still there.  I sent it so they can take it down lol. 

Ward Smithwrote:

Have fun tonight with Paula at the comp Dave, I'll be asleep by the time you start announcing the finals!  

I had a dream last night (nightmare really) that they took down the back 40 degree wall with the red V8 that I was close to sending.  I was like "BUT THEY ARE SETTING A COMP!  THEY CAN'T TAKE IT DOWN!"  I have dreamed about climbing a LOT, but never about indoor routes.  Just shows how low I have fallen.  Anyway, I went in today and it was still there.  I sent it so they can take it down lol. 

Looking forward to Paula's insight and analysis! Nice work on that 8! Now you're dreaming about plastic, you've no need to ever climb outside again :)

Ward Smithwrote:

Thanks for the update on the Verm.  

My only criticism of the “V” scale (other than the problems with any grading scale) is that John Sherman wanted V1 to be relatively difficult, around 5.10+.   Since most people starting out can’t climb nearly that hard of a problem, many gyms have really softened up the lower end of the V scale in order to make it more accessible.  I think there really needs to be a separate scale below V1.  There are a lot of potential separate bouldering grades between 5.0 and 5.10!

I thought V0 is equivalent to 5.10.  I agree that a bouldering scale below V0 would be good.  VB is a thing in some guidebooks which covers all grades below V0, but it would be nice to have a broader range of grades within that VB grade that would encompass 5.0 to 5.9 climbing.

Ship Twrote:

I thought V0 is equivalent to 5.10.  I agree that a bouldering scale below V0 would be good.  VB is a thing in some guidebooks which covers all grades below V0, but it would be nice to have a broader range of grades within that VB grade that would encompass 5.0 to 5.9 climbing.

Yes, some V0s in Hueco were up to maybe 10a at least, V0+ was solid 10 up to 10c.  Why don’t we come up with a new one?  I will think about it and propose it here!  Maybe VB 1 through 5.

Ward Smithwrote:

Why don’t we come up with one?  I will think about it and propose it here!

I thought of EZ0 - EZ5, but that sounds kind of lame,  haha. Yeah, VB1 through VB5 would probably do it.

Ward Smithwrote:

Yes, some V0s in Hueco were up to maybe 10a at least, V0+ was solid 10 up to 10c.  Why don’t we come up with a new one?  I will think about it and propose it here!  Maybe VB 1 through 5.

I mostly climb lower grade boulders in Yosemite, and let me tell you the actual difficulty range within the V0's, V1's, and V2's is all over the place. Some are reasonably easy and some seem impossible for the grade.

Ship Twrote:

I mostly climb lower grade boulders in Yosemite, and let me tell you the actual difficulty range within the V0's, V1's, and V2's is all over the place. Some are reasonably easy and some seem impossible for the grade.

I think that’s common to most older bouldering areas. Left of Les, on Mushroom Boulder in Hueco, gave me absolute fits every time I got on it, and it was V0 back then. 

Frank Steinwrote:

I think that’s common to most older bouldering areas. Left of Les, on Mushroom Boulder in Hueco, gave me absolute fits every time I got on it, and it was V0 back then. 

That one was great, I remember a big move. How about Local Flakes off to the right, the John Sherman standard for V2?  It would be harder than many (if not most) V5s in my gym. I did flash it back in the 90’s, but I was very happy to do so!

PennyAnte boulder on the Little Huerfano  and Shades Mountain outside Birmingham. Seems like a lifetime ago. Thanks for the replies.

Ward Smithwrote:

That one was great, I remember a big move. How about Local Flakes off to the right, the John Sherman standard for V2?  It would be harder than many (if not most) V5s in my gym. I did flash it back in the 90’s, but I was very happy to do so!

Local Flakes took me a couple of tries, but Left of Les took me something like three Hueco seasons. Absolutely ridiculous. It’s an absolute travesty that Mushroom Boulder is closed.

Ignatius Piwrote:

Rubbish! As everybody knows, our rating system over here in the UK is widely accepted as a paragon of logic.

And yes; I'm already very old.... 

Love the British system.  Y'all just have a way with your native tongue.  (Warning: "y'all" is not likely to be in your dictionaries.). Love the absolute precision of things like mild very severe and just very severe; you can't get that gourmet flavor with 5.7- . Oh, but that's not all that's wonderful.  The climbs in one grade are not all easier than the climbs in the next higher grade.  We have that too in the decimal system, but we're not proud of it and consider it an accident of history when it happens.  But, with typical British ingenuity and an unparalleled ability to make lemonade from lemons, you've made it into a feature. Bravo!

Ok, just funnin' here (another non-Britishism), I actually understand what is a very interesting feature of the system, which is that it grades the climber as well as the climb by incorporating information about the protection into the rating.  In our system, a 5.9 climber might venture onto very well-protected 5.10 and be willing to tackle rather poorly protected 5.8.  In the British system, these, or something like these, get lumped into one grade which fairly represents what a climber of that skill level can do.

Sam Findleywrote:

All I know about grades is be careful of east coast 5.9s…heck, at Seneca I’ve even scared the behoozits out of myself on 5.4!

The youngins wouldn’t get it. Last April 1st our local gym put up a new route and labeled it 5.9+. It was an overhanging wall with tiny crimps. I immediately laughed out loud but none of the kids there understood what was so funny. I tried to explain how some routes back in the day we simply called 5.9+ because we weren’t sure if 5.10 was a thing yet.  The next day they relabeled it 5.13a. 

Have any of you JT folks heard from Lori lately? Hope she and Tony are doing okay…

Ship Twrote:

I thought V0 is equivalent to 5.10.  I agree that a bouldering scale below V0 would be good.  VB is a thing in some guidebooks which covers all grades below V0, but it would be nice to have a broader range of grades within that VB grade that would encompass 5.0 to 5.9 climbing.

Here is Aust we consider a V0 to be equal to a grade 20.
The gyms in South Australia don’t use V grades, they use colours without any attempt to correlate with V grades. I know some V zeros in The Gramps that you can’t get your arse off the ground on. The single roped climbing gym in South Aust uses climbing grades but the general consensus is they’re soft. And of course lovely coloured holds are always easier to read than rock. 

Ship Twrote:

I mostly climb lower grade boulders in Yosemite, and let me tell you the actual difficulty range within the V0's, V1's, and V2's is all over the place. Some are reasonably easy and some seem impossible for the grade.

Some V2 are pretty difficult. Either sent by someone 6’10” with a long ape index, or a 5’3” 125 pound dude with muscles like steel cables.

Grades are very subjective, less so in any particular climbing gym, but quite varied from gym to gym.

I’ve climbed V7 recently at Joshua Tree, then couldn’t even start a V4. I don’t even want to think about Yosemite where there are thousands of the best climbers clamouring over every wall and pebble grading things.

Grades are pretty meaningless in my own experience. I joked about it, but basically look up and see if it looks possible, then do it. 5.10a to 5.13b and anywhere in between. You won’t know until you get on it. I’ll try it if it looks fun.

Li Huwrote:

Some V2 are pretty difficult. Either sent by someone 6’10” with a long ape index, or a 5’3” 125 pound dude with muscles like steel cables.

Grades are very subjective, less so in any particular climbing gym, but quite varied from gym to gym.

I’ve climbed V7 recently at Joshua Tree, then couldn’t even start a V4. I don’t even want to think about Yosemite where there are thousands of the best climbers clamouring over every wall and pebble grading things.

Grades are pretty meaningless in my own experience. I joked about it, but basically look up and see if it looks possible, then do it. 5.10a to 5.13b and anywhere in between. You won’t know until you get on it. I’ll try it if it looks fun.

Talking about ape index, who here has the biggest?
Mine is plus 11 cm.